1859 Indian Cent with Shield on Reverse

patterns are awesome!

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

I apologize to 900fine and SaltySam1 for my hasty comments.

I am still unclear on some details. I did goto the NGC website and I did read through the terms of contract and submission, etc. I specifically searched each document for "pattern" and did not get a hit.

You think that NGC called this a business strike because the $10 Variety Fee was not paid? I do not see that the Variety Fee applies to a Pattern.

Regardless of what NGC did, the seller was in a position to know as well. No matter the status of the store owner, a larger seller will have clerks working in the shop, so the level of expertise can vary. (Myself, I had to look in the Red Book to see that the first year of issue had a Laurel wreath. Gee... the things you learn...)

Personally, I do not agree with 900fine and SaltySam1, but having followed 900fine's suggestion via PM, I understand their reasons for their opinions.

 

"Pattern coins are attributed by Judd (J) numbers, while fractional gold coins are attributed by Breen/Gillio (BG) numbers. These attributions are likewise made in the normal course of grading and do not require that such pieces be submitted under VarietyPlus. Also, there is no additional fee for these attributions. Finally, mint error coins are not attributed under VarietyPlus service but also require an addition attribution fee of $10 per coin." From the NGC Website, I stand corrected. It should have been caught, though. It is unacceptable that it was missed for what they are paid to grade a coin.

 

In theory, the TPG should not have 'authenticated' it as a business strike, but returned it bodybagged with a note concerning why. In practice, there is no way to do a good job on authenticating, attributing and grading a coin in 10 seconds or less. I find it to be surprising that many more mistakes like this do not happen.

 

Without researching this coin at all, wouldn't there be a weight difference between the J-228 and the J-229?

 

This particular misattribution tends to happen from time to time. I have seen several of these 1859 patterns slabbed as regular business strikes from both PCGS and NGC.

 

I'd pay $1500 for this pattern.

 

Resolution: The dealer that sold me this coin was more than happy to take the coin back. They had bought it from another dealer and they want to get their money back as well. They also admit that they should have caught this before sending it to me.

I want to thank 900fine & mmarotta for their offline assistance and advice. This was a valuable lesson for me that in the end, didn't cost me any money. I knew very little about Patterns before this and have learned a lot.

Thanks.

 

Variety fees do not apply to patterns. A dealer can send a pattern or heck even an Overton variety ect, & as long as the attribution is correct they will lable it as such without charges. That is what I have experianced many times.

Now I have sent in a coin with my variety attributed & then have had it sent back with another # placed on the lable. I then had to send the coin back with a nicely detailed diagram for the autheticator of why it was a LM-7 & not LM-6 for example & had the problem fixed & fees refunded. Mistakes do happen & things can be missed.

 

Glad to hear you got this resolved TexasJarhead:hail: