eBay rant about deceptive sellers who have high ratings

None of the noobs are posting! I'm about 9 months into the hobby and I've been had every which way. I defended ebay BIG TIME in the beginning thinking that these 'old timers' are missing out!! I'm cleaning up!!! Well... ahhh.... about $4000 later I've learned that, yes, there ARE good coins on ebay but MANY MANY sellers find the newbie a good source of $$$. I found that most if not all RAW coins I bought as UNC were in fact AU. I also found there is no way to police it, other than maybe requiring that a seller offer a money back guarantee unconditionally. Problem is most people don't even know that got a bum coin and are perfectly happy. Heck, I was perfectly happy with a Peace '28 dollar until I posted a pic of it here!!

 

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although i agree some of these look too good to be true, i am under the impression that you are implying these are the exact same picture. i can easily see the difference in background as well as rim thickness.

looking forward to the pic comparison from that won auction.

 

Not to offend anyone, but I always get a kick out of these Ebay rants especially those that indicate that Ebay somehow, should become the "policing" force on determining if a raw coin is described or pictured or graded correctly. All of these are subjective to an opinion, that I would not want Ebay staff or many of you on this forum to determine. It is my responsibility.

It is the buyer responsibilities to make those opinions and if a buyer does not educate themselves before their purchases, it is their fault, not mine, not Ebay. I consider it a freedom to determine how to spend my money either by being smart or dumb in my purchases. I blame no one for my mistakes but rather I learn from them and further my education.

BTW: I do not know of this seller being discussed but if he gave the coin to the buyer for free because of the buyer "opinion' after the purchase that speaks well of the seller, to me.

 

An Honest Assessment!

Thank you for your post, of which I would heartily agree, also generally with rlm's cents and wazzappenning.

It generally is the responsibility of the buyer to assess an item and the seller, prior to submitting a bid. If the item isn't as expected, the seller has indicated as I would, to fully cooperate in settling any differences.

He has done as I, given a dissatisfied customer both returned funds and the product. An honorable seller, IMHO. What more could he have done?

I've imposed the photos from the various auctions, and believe that the images are different. He, as I, has determined a specific angle/location from the camera/lights for a specific coin, which seemingly provides optimum detail.

My experience has determined that buyers want brevity in auction detail, and to evaluate themselves. I've purchased numerous coins with an exclaimed fault which virtually wasn't apparent upon receiving the coin, and didn't detract from the beauty or worth of the item, but resulted in a lower final sales price.

Even if the coins were "doctored", I believe that a great portion of "top tier" TPG certified coins are also, and who can determine the "violator" on coins virtually a century old. My experience has been that most customers would prefer a properly "conserved" coin that has original detail with aged patina, although I know of few who would spend their time on coins having relatively little additional potential value.

I believe his pictures are awesome in lighting and perspective, wishing that I always had similar clarity.

Just the observations of an aged collector, and worth at least the amount paid for same. :thumb:

 

I think ultimately the question is what should be 'legal' in terms of photos...

Messing around one day I scanned XF Morgan and used the soften tool, then without any "doctoring" I used the sharpen tool. I did this a number of times. The coin looked AMAZING!!! The fields were clear and surprisingly it actually looked like luster was brought back. If I can do this, anyone can... I agree buyer beware but many buyers would have a hard time seeing this coin was altered photographically... and I guarantee if I listed the coin it'd bring more money with the "updated" photo...

 

I agree - these coins in these picture look just like ones from a certain large cent seller I post a while back. The same smooth color from one side to the other side of the coin. They certainly look recolored to me.

 

This also might make for an excellent article in CW with photo's .

 

I understand what you are saying but how are you going to define "legal" photographs? Who is going to determine if the photo is "legal" after it been posted on Ebay?

Folks complain enough about ebay fees, just image what their fees would be if each raw coin photograph had to be review by a staff member before it could be posted and sold!

In my opinion educating yourself on how to grading coins by photographs is the answer. If someone does not want to take the time to learn grading of raw coins by photographs perhaps they should only purchase graded coins on Ebay or purchase raw coins from a dealer after reviewing them in person. However, even purchasing graded or raw coins from a dealer in hand can burn you without you taking the time to educating yourself.

In my opinion, it is not Ebay responsibility nor the seller responsibility to educate those who will not take the time to learn.

 

EBay has the responsibility to stop counterfeit coins from being sold... but they do not have the responsibility to stop a novice from buying something that is being "favorably" portrayed. Like the others have said... Buyer beware... do your homework... learn to determine things about coins such as grade and originality for yourself and not take someone else's word for it...

 

Reading is fundamental .

 

oh I'm not saying there IS a way to determine "legal" photos... I should have worded it differently...

it just seems at this point there is no way to stop me from posting those pics and selling the coin for a higher price... and as the OP said, "where is the negative feedback?" ---- I probably wouldn't receive any..

(I'd never do that as I'm a decent person)

My solution as a rookie is just not buying raw coins on ebay... maybe someday but not now...

 

Any evidence of that?

I mean you are entitled to believe whatever you want - my daughter still believes in Santa Claus - but don't you think you should offer some evidence for a fairly outrageous claim like that on a public forum like this???

 

"tpg" =

 

Any conversation going down this road ( topic ) is nothing short of an effort in futility.

 

Current Litigation Disallowing "Cleaning" As Doctoring

I believe one would need to be isolated from past threads in this forum, defendant objections to "dipping" as a "doctoring" alteration, and tentative court acceptance of the argument pertaining to this commonplace activity in current litigation, etc., to accept other than which I stated.

I personally have viewed this practice prior to submission, and been informed on numerous occasions by individuals proudly displaying the grade results of their efforts.

I'm to understand that PCGS will not include this practice as a "doctoring" condition in their litigation, as I believe it would surely diminish their credibility, establish their past acceptance of continued "doctoring" practices which are commonly acknowledged by the collecting community.

The NGC past affiliation, and grading of "conserved" products, substantiates recognition of this, and other practices.

I believe one would find the practice has long been discussed by others in numerous forums as commonplace activity, just that quantitative evidence hasn't been established.

The argument of "top tier" TPG denial indignance is analogous to paraphrased Winston Churchill asking a woman if she would sleep with him for an extremely large sum, and renegotiating a lower amount upon affirmation. The woman indignantly denying she was a w****, whereby it was stated that her practices/values had been established, what remained was negotiation of conditions. If the practice is so abhorrent, 1 incident would be unacceptable, and past "conservation" grading by "top tier" TPG have exceeded that level.

As stated: "I mean you are entitled to believe whatever you want", as are any who take exception to my substantiated commonplace beliefs. What could possibly be in disagreement is not the practice, but the frequency of accredited "practice acceptance".

My presentation was intended educational, not to incite negative emotions/hostilities, and I apologize for objective offense.

:hail:

 

This seller is just covering up all of the negatives and neutrals with getting positives from buying items, or selling actually real items.

 

Third Party Grading (e.g. NGC, PCGS, ANACS, etc.)

 

I wager the photographs are doctored in this listing.

 

e-bay continues to do little about these seller,s letting them operate in this fashion
It turns many people away!!

 

I suspect that seller is using his own re-coloring mixture . If we dot all the ( i ) s and cross all the T's , it is deceptive and meant to hook a " noob " as you folks call em. What he is doing is against no law, doesn't break any EBAY rules. Perhaps the best way to handle this is to overload the sellers e-mail with viewer messages of dissatisfaction for this practice. Ultimately it's up to the buyer, to be knowledgeable enough to know the difference between what is real and what isn't. Knowledge is power . Or maybe we should , " get a rope " . LOL