your thoughts: are numismatics rising with pm's?

with silver approaching $30 are we seeing a bump up in numismatics?

 

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In 90% silver scrap. I don't think so as much in numismatics

Just my opinion. If my coin's sold faster maybe I would say yes

Dan

 

Numismatics will always trump PM, especially when it comes to supply and demand for collectors. I always see a rise in collectible coins after a surge in PM melt value, especially 90% silver coins, gold has held steady for years.

Rising prices has always been good for the collector, if PM's fall off the planet, the collector still has that premium of someone still wanting their coins.

 

I think we're seeing a bump in PM prices. I think as far as many lower grade silver pieces go we're seeing melt value overtake numismatic value.

 

I agree but that is the short term. In the long term the Numistmatic values will be back.

 

I am buying some numismatics and selling bullion coins. It seems to be a perfect situation to add to my collection.

 

I don't think the silver price rising is effecting numismatic coins much. Most investors buying up silver try to buy close to spot. Most collectors associate close to spot as well circulated, junk, and bullion, not numismatic.
Guy

 

Surging PM prices always increase numismatic prices. Dealers and collectors sell of PM and reinvest money buying that 16d dime or 1877 cent they always wanted. After PM go down, there is always a period of price corrections because suddenly there is a shortage of cash in the industry and dealer stocks are devalued. It was that way in the 1980's at least. It takes MUCH longer for numismatic items to go down than bullion items, since a dealer cannot justify charging $15 for silver when the market is $10 for very long.

 

In this area, numismatics prices are only going up with the PM's. There isnt a coin shop for 130 miles leaving only pawn shops and antique stores.

 

I am doing the same. I see it as a hedge on falling PM prices.

Plus I get to add to my Peace dollar Collection.

 

This is exactly what happens, and why higher PM prices increase numismatic prices. It happened in 1980. Then when PM's crashed numismatic prices were flat for years for common items, cash liquidity was taken out of the market. I don't see why it would be any different this time, I just don't know how high PM's will go or when they will crash. If I did I would be sipping pina coladas on a beach somewhere right now.

 

No. When PM prices do a rapid run up interest turns away from numismatics and toward the short term profit potential of the metals. Also the bullion value of many coins runs up faster than the numismatic interest can support. This results in coins which would have been considered to be collector coins previously now being viewed as merely metal and scrapped. This happened back in 1979/80 when common BU silver dollars were now worth more from the refiner than collectors would pay and hundreds of thousands, possibly millions of BU Morgan dollars were melted down. Third as dealer find they can make much more money daily catering to the metals market than they can collectors, the collectors find that they are being shut out and ignored. Many give up and either sell off their coins, often for melt, or then just put collecting on hold. Beginning collectors find themselves priced out of the market AND ignored, Either way numismatics suffers.

 

The melt value of a set of circulated Franklin Half Dollars is now about $350.00 so how much is a BU set of Franklins selling for now?

 

I think the higher prices is hurting the numismatics sector. I'm still a noob in the collecting world (only been doing it as a hobby for a year now) and with the prices of silver going up, I'm finding myself buying less and less of any coin that has silver in it. And forget about gold! However, I've been targeting more modern coins as well as some of the older large cents for now.

 

I never said PM prices do not discourage new collectors or that it does not harm coin collecting. I was talking about existing collectors and the habit they have of cashing in PM profits and reinvesting in rare coins, sometimes irrationally. I am referring specifically to what happened in 1980. I was a kid then so know full well how any silver coin was mostly out of my reach until silver crashed. I also know that nice key dates started rising because of PM sales. Numismatic items take much longer to come back down, but the problem today is that some numismatics items were coming down as PM were goin up, so its hard to see what is happening separately. In the 80's it was easy, numismatic coins went up with PM, (though not as fast), but then took 5 years to come down, (unlike PM). Large PM upswings, like today, I believe will have an affect on the coin market, one that will take a while to sort out after PM's come down.

 

In a word; yes. I'm seeing some crazy bidding at the local auctions now that silver is getting close to $30/ounze. Are we reliving the Hunt Brothers all over again?

 

I saw crazy bidding in the coin club auction tonight. Walking Liberty halves going for $8, silver dollars of $20, and silver eagles for $22. Coins which last month were selling for a few dollars OVER the metal values, tonight were having difficulties getting opening bids well under melt and finally selling below melt. There was even one painted silver eagle they had great difficulties getting an opening bid of $15 on that finally sold for $20. Last month collectors bought. This month silver was higher and the collectors sat on their hands.

 

Probably a little bit... but it doesn't track in real time. There's a time delay.

The rise in PM values tend to increase interest in the hobby. That can increase numismatic value over time... but it's a slow process.

 

Gotta agree Ricky....

 

I think in time high PM prices will raise higher grade 90% silver coins if people purchase coins in the same fashion as I do. When you can purchase a given silver dollar for melt value all the way up to XF condition, I will usually spring for the mint state one for a couple extra dollars. But, if silver returns to around $15 an ounce, then there is once again a decision to make.