I acquired a large quantity of coins that I have been selling on ebay for the past 4 months. Part of this collection was a plastic bag full of Chinese Silver (it appears) Coins that are roughly the size of US Silver Dollars. Since I had no idea what they are, I went out and bought the 19th Century and 20th/21th Century Krause/Mishler World Coin Catalogs and started to try to identify them. Some of these I could not find, and some I was able to find. On some of them, I was stunned to see that some were quite rare and valuable. Therefore, they MUST BE FAKES. There is nobody who would have this much good luck. So, maybe some of you who have in interest or knowledge in Chinese coins can help me out. What do you think of these coins? Are they obvious known fakes, reproductions, or are some authentic. Since a few were not expensive in the World Coin Catalog, I will guess that those are the real ones. So, thanks to Photoshop, I have created a small webpage with photo's of the coins. Check them out if you want!!! The URL is http://home.comcast.net/~ebay-hhearst/ChineseCoins/index.htm I don't really expect these coins to be real and worth a lot. Eventually I will put them up on Ebay. I think I should describe them as 'Questionable Authenticity' since I know nothing about them. Best Regards, Hal
Well let me be the first to welcome you to the forum. I am sorry that I am unable to help you id these coins. We have some very knowledgeable people here on this site, hopefully one of them can help.
Thanks!!! I very much enjoy digging into a bag of coins and trying to figure out what they are. This coin business is making me say things I never said before, like "The price of silver is insane" or "Where's my redbook? Where's my greysheet?"
Believe me, I am too aware of this. I have my employees scrambling to update all the junk silver that we had labled at 5 times face. Gotta love this business. If nothing else, it keeps you on your toes.
hhearst - I am not a collector of these coins but I do know that they are definitely counterfeited very often. Many of the counterfeits from Asia are quite good. So good in fact that they have fooled some of the so called experts. I took a quick look through your pics and there is only one coin there that I am even remotely familiar with. But I noticed a couple inconsistencies. I can't say one way or the other if they are copies or not. But if nobody else comes along I'll do a bit of research and see if I can't help you
It might be helpful to know where and from whom you got them. Like Gilbert & Sullivan's Mikado, I "have a little list" of known sellers of counterfeits/replicas. My specialty area is modern Japanese - 1870-date, and what little familiarity I have with Chinese silver developed from dealing with the frequent mis-attribution that gets many of them listed on EBay, Yahoo, and expecially Amazon, as "Japanese". Several of yours are coins which I do know to have been heavily counterfeited/replicated, both contemporary with their issue and recently. Many of the recent ones are sold throughout Asia as "souvenirs", and one reason you may have found observes and reverses that don't match the SCWC is that many of these souvenir items pair attractive sides, whether or not they come from the same coins. Some of these coins are sold as "reproductions", even though they lack any "copy" or other inscription to identify them as such. Fake British, US and Japanese Trade Dollars, as well as Chinese Yuan, Korean Won and Japanese Yen, are commonly listed on internet auctions from Beijing, Singapore, Seoul, Taiwan, and - believe it or not - Canada. The first two things to look for are weight and the distinctive surface appearance of castings. Diameter is also frequently off - I have one in my counterfeit collection with a 40mm diameter, and a 19g weight, although the genuine coin would be 38.6mm and weigh 2 hairs less than 27g. Both valuable and inexpensive coins are counterfeited and sold as souvenirs, so I personally wouldn't buy any of your batch sight unseen. Sorry.
Wow, thanks for that very informative post. I should probably state that I am not trying to sell these coins via this forum. I am very new to it, butI am sure there are probably rules against that. I am just trying to learn, though most likely I will sell them at a later date. So, even the inexpensive ones may be fake. Gosh, this is getting hard. Here is how I got these coins. I was given a large box of coins that was basically a traveling coin store. The gentlemen who owned the box used to take it to coin shows and flea markets and other events and sold coins. It was about 90% US coins (medals and tokens), 5% Canadian Coins, 3% Great Britain, and 2% other. Mostly inexpensive items, but there were a few nice ones in there. Most of the stuff was inserted into 2x2's, labled with a price,etc. However, all this Chinese stuff was not. The 24 yaun coins were in a plastic bag, while the rest were in 2x2's but not labled (except with the work Chinese) or priced. So, these coins owe me nothing. I have learned a lot about US coins, and I am now moving on to the foreign items. But, it is a whole new world with and the difficulty is high when you can't read the language on the coins. On a related topic: Is there a good web reference for learning about Chinese coins? Thanks again.
hhearst Looking at the photos that you provided, I can say with certainty that they are all Nickel counterfeits from Indonesia, except #13 obverse and reverse (your reverse is the obverse and vice versa). These are the Yuan Shi Kai Silver (fat man) coins and they look genuine. The latest fakes from China are much better and are more difficult to detect.
SingaporeCoinGy, well the fact that they are fake is not suprising, but that they are not even made of silver is certainly disappointing. Oh well... I will assume that they have some small collectible value and therefore should hang on to them. I am glad to hear that those Fat Man coins look genuine and therefore are made of silver. Also Satootoko, thanks for the links. Best Regards, - Hal
Hi Frank. Where have you been hiding? Haven't seen you on any of the forums lately. That's why I depend on you and the one other honest dealer in Singapore that I know about for guidance.
"I don't really expect these coins to be real and worth a lot. Eventually I will put them up on Ebay. I think I should describe them as 'Questionable Authenticity' since I know nothing about them." I believe that it is wrong to sell them at all. You bought them unawares and you must accept responsibility for your lack of knowledge by taking the loss. If you sell them as fakes, they will come back as genuine coins in someone else's collection, the same way you bought them. I am giving a talk this summer about counterfeits and as part of that, I will be destroying the ones that I do not turn over the Secret Service. What would it take to get your fake coins to that demonstration to be destroyed? Mike Marotta ANA R-162953
I for one do not advicate destroying fakes, as they are a valuable tool used in identification. We have many fakes in our office for demonstration purposes only. (We would never sell a fake coin unless clearly marked as a copy). I DO agree with mmarotta about NOT selling the coins. Unless they are very clearly marked as copies or fakes, some other collector may fall prey to these coins. That does a disservice to all involved. Sometimes it is hard to put the hobby ahead of making a dollar, but it is definately worth it in the long run.
"...I have created a small webpage with photo's of the coins. Check them out if you want!!! The URL ishttp://home.comcast.net/~ebay-hhearst/ChineseCoins/index.htm" And a nice page, it is! I went to it this morning and I was impressed. One thing is that all of the questionable coins have the same toning, apparently. This is highly unlikely, even if the coins were all acquired at the same time and stored in the same place for a long time, they would all look different. One thing I noticed -- being weak to ignorant about Chinese Coins and not too hot even with a reference book in hand -- is the UK Trade Dollar. I don't swear that this link is to a genuine coin, but it is to a BETTER coin: http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3906172972&category=3406 I searched in vain for a nice picture of a UK Trade Dollar from 1912 from a reputable site like Coincraft or Stacks. Maybe someone else can help with that. Anyway, the UK Trade Dollar is fake, in my opinion. Sorry. But thanks again for the webpage. Nice work! Michael
Thanks. I was pretty easy to do. I noticed that about the coins as well. The also have those fine lines of cleaning on all of them (fat man excluded). They were probably all cleaned at about the same time and this could also explain why they have the same tone. If this page, or the photo's on this page could be a useful example of fakes, then I would certainly be willing to let anyone who wanted to host it, have it. I could probably take even better, higher-resolution photos of the coins and make some changes to it if requested. I would love to have photos of genuine ones to contrast against the fakes. The would greatly help newbies like myself. Best Regards, - Hal
The differences become clear when you can sell examples side by side. Check this out... Mine is not as nice and the date looks different. A public web site with photos like this would be a great service. How can we get one? Best Regards, - Hal
