1909 vdb matte proof ?

Thanks. I looked at the photos and compared them with my coin. My coin certainly has the hair and beard details, and the rim. I can even see lots of details in the bow tie. But neither of the obverse diagnostics are evident. But I checked another site and found a report of a matte proof without the front diagnostics being found at Long Beach. The VDB on the reverse is a little weak, especially the B, but the rims are sharp

 

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You might try reading this http://www.cointalk.com/t66862/ thread also. However, with a weak VDB, I doubt your coin is proof.

 

Many of the 1909 VDB coins had square flat rim edges, but the matte proofs had "polished" edges, at least the proofs I have seen. Unfortunately, you can't see these in an obverse/reverse photo in a 2x2 or plastic enclosure. Here is a photo of the rims of my 1909 MLP ( now in PCGS slab) non-VDB. Notice how polished and flat the edge is.



Now here is a 1909 VDB, that I thought might be a matte proof due to the rims and edges.



compared to this 1909 VDB with rounded edge.



and the 2 one on the other.



But notice that even though the edge is flat and squared, it isn't polished as a proof is. It would be helpful to see the edge of your coin if polished. On a whim I sent it in to PCGS as a Matte Lincoln proof, and they labeled it 1909VDB not matte.

IMO,

Jim

 

VDB cent

Thanks for your feedback. I will try to take a picture of the rim, if I can figure out how to do it with a simple digital camera and fluorescent lighting.

In the meantime, here is a little background to my coin:

My grandmother had a friend whose father had worked at the Philadelphia Mint in 1909 and who obtained the coin directly from the Mint at that time. At some point after that, he gave it to his daughter, that is, my grandmother's friend. My grandmother's friend had consequently developed an interest in coin collecting, and was also interested in getting kids started in the hobby. So sometime in the '60s, she gave this coin to my grandmother to give to me to get me interested in coin collecting. I received it when I was in Cub Scouts in 1966 or 67. For most (but not all) of that time, it has been sitting in a Whitman Lincoln Cent album (with the clear plastic inserts). But as a young kid, I am sure I must have mishandled this coin at various times to show it to friends, etc.

 

Even if it is impaired, such as wear, scratches, cleaning, etc. It would still be a great coin to have. Even if it isn't, your history with it will make it a prime part of your collection. I hoped the flat edges would turn my story, but alas, PCGS didn't agree as several here didn't either. Try to find the markers for the matte proof, and see if you can find them on yours. I "imagineered" them on mine, but I have the coin and it's story, and the thread printed out for my son to see before he goes to sell it after I "move on".
Have a good time with it.

Jim

 

Truthfully, after reading the responses, I believe you need to submit the coin. Although the experts seem to agree it is not a Matte Proof, they are doing so just from the pics provided. Although I believe they may be correct, the amount of value an authenticated MP would have merits a hands-on evaluation. The possible reward here warrants the expense. IMHO

 

nice coin

 

Great story. I hope it is a Matte. Chances are slim, but slimmer things have happened.

 

So far every business strike 09 VDB I have seen has had the period right up against the D. Every Matte Proof 09 VDB has had the period equally spaced between the D and the B.

 

Given that the original owner of the coin was an employee of the Philadelphia Mint (as per my grandmother, and I have no reason to doubt her story), I would assume that he would have tried to get a top example of the coin. At any rate, I have compared this coin with a regular business strike (AU/UNC) under a 14X loupe and made the following observations:

The business strike has strong details, with nice rims, but viewed from the side they are slightly rounded. The rims on my grandmother's friend's coin are square when viewed from the side. (I wish I knew how to photograph them).

The business strike shows regular "cartwheel" luster, while Grandma's friend's coin has a very subdued luster. When viewed under a light, Lincoln's portrait in the latter looks very similar to this:

http://www.PcgsCoinFacts.com/UserImages/1909VDB Cent PCGS PR67RB large.JPG

The fields in the business strike are relatively smooth, but the fields in Grandma's friend's coin show much striation and what looks like pitting, like in this coin:

http://caimages.collectors.com/coinfacts/large/12279484.jpg

 

The second VDB is Curly's from the PCGS registry, and of course we all know Jonathan's VDB. It's hard to say from the images that yours is an MPL. I would certainly have either of the TPG's or an expert take a look at it.

 

Send it in and get it certified, C1966... I'm thinking, given all your info on it, and the fact you feel so strongly, it's probably worth the $30 you'd have to spend to get it certified.

Doesn't mean much, but I have a gut feeling that it is a MPL... if you really wanna save the $30, find someone with a good camera and have them take some nice shots of the coin.

 

Some more photos

Maybe I'm a little too passionate about this? Maybe I could be engaged in "imagineering". At any rate, here are a couple more photos of the coin-- one of the obverse, and one of the side.

 

That actually looks to me like it might possibly be. Unless you know a god dealer over there, I could not give you a clue what to do from here. Send it in to be certified and use a relative's return address? I would use NGC because it lloks to me like it would get a genuine/details grade.

 

No pro here but I'd put it in the possible area too.

 

Thanks for your assessment and encouragement. There is a dealer in the Tokyo area who handles NGC submissions. It's a little more expensive-- $40-45-- and it can take 3 months or more to get my coin back. But from what you say, it might be worth it to invest $45 in a "lottery ticket"

 

I just got another idea. Before you invest in that lottery ticket, 2 things to try. First, try to get a friend (I assume) to get some better pix to post here. Japan may not have many Lincoln cent experts, but they must have some descent photographers. Second, maybe this dealer in Tokyo has some knowledge before he submits it to NGC. He might even have some photographic connections.

 

sweet

 

A lot of these are very "proof like". I have one that is very, very close to looking like an MPL, but it is definately not. There's known die marker for this if you do some research. It'd probably be easiest to take it to a local dealer that knows MPL's and have them look at it.

 

I'd guess that 1966's coin has a better chance of being a proof due to the broad flat rims. But I'm really not the person to answer this question.

Boy was I late to this party. Prior responses are good.