Dave's Right - They're Ours!

Fair enough Christian, I agree the tone might not been enough tongue in cheek. I would disagree about archeological sites being plundered by coin colelctors though. Most do not contain many coins, as people think they would. Most coins are buried far away from anywhere inportant since it would defeat the purpose of hiding your money. Its a common misconception. The best way to protect found coins is to adopt a system similar to the British one, which encourages reporting and documenting finds. Too many European laws actually encourage farmers to bury or destroy coins found on their land do to the government taking them, bureaucratic hassles, etc.

Chris

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

True, when I wrote about plundering archeological sites, I did not primarily have us coin collectors in mind. But collectors of antiquities, be it coins or other items, may of course want to buy what others "discover" there. So it would be very helpful to have some kind of certificate which shows that an item was found and purchased legally.

(I realize that such a pedigree will be difficult or impossible for ancient or medieval coins that been in somebody's collection for quite a while. Also, even many ancient coins were mass products, not unique pieces of art. Heck, I never said I know a solution. )

As for where coins are found, well, that depends. Some people hid their treasures in fields away from their houses. But here in Germany for example, old coins are often discovered when a house in a city is rebuilt or newly built. That would not really be the type of place that a detectorist would search though.

Interestingly, the PAS (which I think is a great approach) is not really "British" - as far as I know, it applies to England and Wales only. Similarly, there is no uniform regulation in Germany when it comes to who "owns" a found treasure - the rules in the state where I live (NW) are quite different from those in, say, Hamburg or Berlin ...

Christian

 

I wouldn't worry too much about that. I doubt the BP fiascos (plural) have much effect on US - UK relations.

There's no shortage of America bashing, both here and abroad. The two most recent British PMs have both seen fit to address xenophobic America bashing, for good reason. A cursory read of the BBC shows why. If you can't see mountains of America bashing there, you are choosing blindness.

The big issue, of course, is "why is bashing others so universal ?". It certainly reveals a smallness in the basher, and it begs a second, more searching question : why do we see the flaws in others, but not ourselves ?

 

That might be a good thing.

Here in the US, the majority of "finders keepers" law is the domain of individual states, not the federal government. Thus, one would not expect uniformity nation-wide. That is largely positive; states are quite different, and there are many instances where the law should fit local circumstances.

Of course, there are other cases where certain laws are, and should be, uniform nation-wide.

 

Can we have a TEA break ?

 

Jolly good idea, what? I'll bring the crumpets and the biscuits, of course! Let's have tea at three!

 

Very well, my good man, ta tah for now

 

Actually I agree with you. Fortunately most finds are NOT declared to be treasure and are returned to the finders because the museums already have satisfactory examples in their collections and they would rather use their limited acquisition funds for other things they consider more important. But the treasure trove laws DO encourage the reporting of finds so new archeological sites can be identified and properly excavated. So overall they are quite good.

 

And I'll bring the cucumber sandwiches!

That is precisely the point. The recording of the finds is extremely important not only to our understanding of the coinage related, but to all of history.

I know this thread started out tongue-in-cheek, but I think that all US collectors should remember something. Most cultural property laws relating to coins ban the sale and export of everything over 200 years old. That means your 1798 dollars would be illegal. (A simplification, I know. But a clear way to make a point)

 

Ownership of something only applies to what and how the governing body allow you to use it. I mean, you never own your house or land. You only own certains rights of useage to it. Same goes with the coins or currency. You are allowed the use of it, unless the government decides you aren't.

The problem with all of this started when these were uncovered in front of witnesses. Who was it that said "Two people can keep a secret, if one of them is dead" ?

 

FWIW, the Unidroit Convention covers "antiquities more than one hundred years old, such as inscriptions, coins and engraved seals". http://www.unidroit.org/english/conventions/1995culturalproperty/1995culturalproperty-e.htm

Christian

 

Well the second part of that has been happening for years and continues to expand in scope.

Although I did note that the last time I was in London, they still had the Elgin Marbles. Maybe if the Brits decide to give those back to Greece, then we'll let them keep our old St. Gaudens.

Yes, we will be happy to take all of those back. Just as soon as Europe gives us back the lives of all of our soldiers who died in June 1944 bailing their entire continent out of the depths of hell. TIA.

 

Guess it's time to get out of here.

Christian

 

Do you think the Brits will ask for London Bridge back?

 

Interesting debate people....

 

I don't know about Archeological sites but there is protection in the US of cemeteries, even if on private land.