... I've become very obsessive compulsive as to the grades of the RAW coins I've purchased. Does a UNC coin HAVE to have the 'cartwheel'? I have many Morgans which show no wear or even many bagmarks that the local dealer calls AU because of the lack of 'cartwheel'. For instance, I just looked at my 1882 CC under 16x and it truly looks flawless BUT there is virtually no cartwheel. Help this crazy newbie before I give up and stick it all on ebay!! (thanks) Kevin
Welcome to CT, and no, a coin does not need a cartwheel to be MS. I have an 1853 Half Cent, MS63BN by PCGS, and it has no cartwheel. Hope this helps.
It depends. Some coins may not have the cartwheel luster and still be MS, and some may have it and not be MS. Examples - a coin can be over-dipped and have virtually no luster at all and thus not be MS. - a coin can have toning that obscures the luster, thus no cartwheel, and still be MS. - a coin have full cartwheel luster but yet have light wear on the high points and not be MS. If you want other opinions on a given coin or coins, then post good pics and we'll be glad to help out. But there is no way that anyone can make a statement like - if it has no cartwheel luster then it is not MS - because it is simply not true.
It appears that your local dealer may have grading standards that are contrary to the grading standards of PCGS, because I can provide you with numerous coins PCGS graded MS63 which have heavy bag rub, and bland lack-luster fields without "cart-wheel" uniformity. http://www.cointalk.com/showthread.php?t=97279&p=836916&highlight=#post836916 I believe you would be best served locating another source for coin transactions. Rich
Not necessarly. He may have a very good source in that dealer. If the guy is willing to sell MS coins as AU, he can get some good deals. As long as he can tell which ones really are MS anyway.
Thanks all! IMRich that makes me feel a little better... I can't lie... I too got sucked into the ebay vortex as a new collector.. Nothing gets you fired up as a few grand tied up in what I call "EBAY AU's" As a newbie, seeing that 'frosty' cartwheelie look on a Morgan is awesome, but it's nice to know it's not REQUIRED to have an MS coin (say 60ish) Thanks again members
Unfortunately, most Ebay raw Uncs tend not to be. There is a chance you might have dipped AUs or possibly even polished coins. To me, no bag marks under magnification and no cartwheel is a bad sign. It may mean the coins have been messed with. If the coins were bought raw off Ebay, it is likely that the dealer might be wrong about his assertion about cartwheel, but right about the specific coins.
it's when you hold a coin somewhat sideways to a point lightsource and you see reflected light sort of "cartwheel" around the coin...
In addition to that... Every coin dealer is a practitioner and if this is how he choses to run his business, it is not an indictable offense, IMO. He may find that in his market that he can't get rid of Morgans at desired prices unless the coins have cartwheeling. That doesn't make the guy a bad dealer. As a new coin collector, I can also tell you have the skills needed to judge things like dipping and other grading issues takes a lot of time and effort. Don't be so quick to judge your own grading skills positively until you might have seen a few hundred, if not thousand examples. When I have set my heart of a coin type, I have spent a lot of time looking over coins, comparing different grades, getting feedback, photographing and making trial purchases before settling on an example I wanted...and I'm talking months or even years. It can take that long just to form a detailed image of the coin's design in your mind. You must have patience for this hobby. Ruben
Cartwheel is when you hold a coin by the edge and "wiggle" it, the effect of light on the surface of a coin produces the visual similarity to a rotating spoked wagon wheel like in the old western movies.
Kind of like looking at an old vinyl record. I thought I'd bring that record analogy up since in a couple more generations, folks won't know what they are!
