Did NGC Blow It? 1954-S Jefferson Nickel MS67

I agree on the unattractiveness. Maybe, to give NGC some benefit of the doubt, the coin was stored improperly after it was slabbed and has turned this unattractive color. Still not a 67 based on the strike though.

 

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May I ask why you would say Pauls is over-graded? Is it over graded because of the weakness in Monticello?

 

The second coin is hard for me to understand how it could have possibly been graded so high. Saying all slabbed coins in a particular grade are not the same is one thing, but to me this is an extreme example of this.

 

"If you do not have something nice to say, sit next to me"- Dorothy Parker

It would be hard to say something nice about that coin, maybe someone has a friend in NGC and they gave them that grade as a Christmas present?

Then I remembered a recent thread here where the date was mislabeled, so it is highly possible that it was a 4:55 pm coin, one coin left to grade today, it is 4:55 five minutes till the day is over, the graders argue over the grade, one wants a 62, one wants a 63, one wants a 66, they compromise on a 64, and give it to the guy who wanted the 66 to type up, in his hurry he hits the 7 instead of the 4 on the keyboard and that's how the error occurred. It might be a mislabeled coin.

 

Strike must be incorporated into the grade! A weakly struck coin like the second one should not grade higher than 64 in my opinion, even if there are no marks anywhere. Combined with the unappealing toning, and lack of luster, that coin should not even approach gem status.

 

Doug,

If you were a grader at NGC and were required to conform to the grading standards established by the company, what grade would you give both coins?

 

Why are all of the top pops in NGC holders? Are they more lenient than PCGS?

 

Maybe there are PCGS 66s out there that are nicer than the NGC 67s, and cheaper to boot. Just wondering.

 

PCGS is definitely more conservative when assigning the numerical grade in the Jefferson Nickel series. By my estimation, they are almost a full grade stricter than NGC. But the kool-aid drinkers should settle down because the real money in this series comes with the full step designation. PCGS is 10X more likely to issue a FS designation than NGC. If you don't believe me check the population reports.

As far as finding PCGS 66's that are nicer than some of the NGC 67's, that is certainly a possibilty, although I would consider it the exception not the rule. However, I don't think they would be that much cheaper. PCGS price guide for the 1954-S MS66 is $175 and Numismedia Wholesale for MS67 is $200. The typical PCGS MS66 sells for $125-$150 but I have seen some sell for over $200.

 

The strike on Paul's is pretty amazing for that year

 

It is the best I have seen.

 

After looking at the better image, I actually like the coin. Not saying it's a 67 or that I would pay that kind of price for it. I'm thinking it has some nice color that we can't see in the image. It would be interesting to see that one in hand.

 

I'm guessing that the non-Paul coin got that high grade strictly because it is a 54-s and they made allowances for the strike because of that.

 

... and it being fit for "Registry"? Come on...

I agree with you, but after reading all of the comments, I can see another side of the argument it truely being an MS-67. However, in my humble opinion, it should have made only an MS-65 grade, at the most. What really gets me, though, okay, it be given and MS-67, but the added on distinction of Resgistry to boot? ... Come on now, where is the integrity in that? I see a frequent-flyer favor being given to a customer at either/both Teletrade or NGC, or at least the connotation thereof...

I think we need to see an explanation from either/both Teletrade and NGC. The integrity of the hobby and market is put to the test with example like this. What is the criteria, exactly, that NGC, and PCGS, et al, use to determine higher tier grades?

I have seen other specimins in the past but never spoke up, but hadn't known about CoinTalk and other good forums until recent.

-Minty

 

I don't know when NGC changed their policy that only authorzied dealers could make submissions but the coin in question is in a old holder with a certification number of 320168-065. This is in the 2002-2003 range IIRC. I really don't think there was any frequent flyer favoritism back then and the registry was in it's infancy when this coin was graded.

I think there is a simple explanation, NGC blew it.

 

I would like to see this coin in hand. While I agree it appears to be overgraded...weak strikes are the norm for this date. I seem to remember one of Lehigh's old threads about a 1922 Peace Dollar slabbed as MS67 with a very weak strike and the discussion that ensued. At what point does strike quality become a factor. I feel then and do now that at the high grades it does factor in but you have to look at the normal strike for the date/mint mark. This appears to be a normal strike for the date...can we really hold it to "full strike" standards that are normal for other dates.

Another example, do you grade a 1881-S and 1892-O Morgan Dollar to the exact same standard when it comes to strike? The answer is no.

 

How can NGC grade this coin MS67?? I sent in a 1881-cc morgan dollar and they sent it back as "Improperly cleaned", When i know for a fact that it has not once been cleaned.

 

maybe someone busted open one of the 15 real ms67's and popped that piece of crap in it's place? heck maybe it's how the light doesn't strike the coin and much as the coin just sucks up the light and all the happiness around it? I'd call this coin the ex wife ms67 coin... sure it's nice to look at 100 yards away when you can't really tell who or what is it...but once it's in your face...you really wish you didn't have to see it...

I'd rather have that holed,damaged,tooled,graffiti,bent,coin posted in this thread
http://www.cointalk.com/t82706/