can i naturally tone a coin, artifically?

(I know my thread title sounds funny!)

If I put some nice (prevously dipped) Unc. Morgans in a old coin folder and left them for 10 years ... would they tone nicely ... (would it take longer) ... (is toning coins this way more of a gamble)

And if they did tone, would that be considered natural toning?

Is the real difference between NT and AT the time involved ...
NT coins take decades, while AT coins take a few hours/days

Or the vehicle used for toning ...
AT coins use sulphur drops or a spray
NT coins react to sulphur in folders, envelopes, or bags

Or is it more the intention ...
NT coins were not stored with intention to tone while AT coins were purposely stored or manipulated so they would tone

Does anyone sell high sulfer folders where you could experiment with "naturally toning" a coin over many years ... or would that be frowned upon

i am guessing most folder sellers today take pains to remove the sulphur from their folders ... right?

thanks in advance for any input!

 

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Shouldn't it be the process of a coin toning and not the intent? For me, I think that using chemicals to tone a coin quickly should be AT and leaving a coin in an envelope for 10 years should be NT because it's toning naturally over time.

 

Thanks for the input ... it's an interesting question

GDJ, Thanks for the possibly unintentional tip aon using an old Wait Raymond album! I never even heard of that (i probably wont be able to find it anyway) ... it's sort of interesting if someone might make some coin holders (like pages of albums) that were specially made to tone a coin slowly over time ... might be an interesting ... however I am guessing most people wouldnt want to wait 10 years ... it would be fun for me to do an experiment with it ... imaging taking 1 photo a month then showing a 10 year time lapse film of a coin slowly toning ... (i probably have too much time on my hands!!!)

brotheratom, yes on a gut level ... i sort of agree with what you are saying ... but i have no idea what the experts think ... i am guessing if it took me 10 years for a coin to tone ... i have probably increased my odds that PCGS or NGC might bless it as "natural" ... but i really have no idea.

 

From a chemistry standpoint, there is no difference between NT (leaving a coin in contact with the chemicals in an envelope or an old coin folder for 10 years) or AT (putting the coin in physical contact with chemicals/gasses for a short period of time). I hate it when people ask if a coin is 'un-naturally' toned, and the person who is clearly doing the toning jobs in their basement answer 'no, it's perfectly natural'. Duh - you'd have to break some chemistry/physics laws to do it 'un-naturally', so of course all toning is 'natural'.

 

ahh ... just found this old thread from may ... lots of good info here

http://www.cointalk.com/t107815-4/

 

The TPG's are getting tough on questionable toning in my opinion. I just got back a coin from NGC graded AU details Altered Color. I have own this coin for quite a while and I am pretty sure it is not AT.

 

People who know incomparably more than I do have said here that when dipped coins re-tone the results are less likely to be attractive than toning would be over original surfaces.

 

There is nothing under the sun that isn't natural. Put a coin and the oven and the results are 100% natural.

 

Why is everyone so fascinated with toning their own coins? If you want a toned coin, go buy one!

 

Doesn't that require applications of chemicals to tone quickly? Minute traces of chemicals that affect a coins surface slowly is the NT way to go.

 

Some coin will tone no matter what is done.the US Mint last year had the same problem with the 2009 bronze Lincolns. AT or NT some coin will tone no matter how there stored.it like it in the metals DNA

 

Since it would be impossible to truly know the intent of the person or the circumstances surrounding a coins toning then why bother labeling a coin NT or AT, shouldn't it be simply called toned?

 

I bought Lincoln proof the other day that looked like the beginning stages of toning. So even though I did not need it I bought it anyway. Will leave it in the 2x2 and watch it. Looks like it could be interesting if it tones like I think it may.

 

Ill tell you all the number one tip, Take your coins out of the folders out of the 2x2's out of whatever they are in and let them enjoy some fresh air..........a week later you might be pleased you might be displeased but whatever the case may be your coin will ahve changed colors!



Enjoy
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Money/value is one reason some insist that there be a separation. Natural toning brings more value than artificial ( if one could distinguish). In fact many insist that AT coins are damaged, even though the chemical reactions are the same. In previous times before the advent of modern spectrographic analysis, many felt the reactions were different and distinguishable, although they are not. Some still believe this and that they ( with their "spectroscopic vision" )can tell AT from NT. They are just fooling themselves. You can believe the earth is flat with great fervor, but that doesn't make it so.


Others feel they are traditionalists, wanting to keep the coins in their pristine "fresh from the mint" condition, even though most ( according to many)pre-64 bright silver coins have seen the chemical dip. Their desire, although hard to obtain and almost impossible to maintain, is that of a true collector as is the desire of those who only intervenes in the toning process to limit it when it approaches irreversible "corrosion", and loves the color their coins take on as they like their owners age.



The way things are going in numismatics, I expect soon an article or advertisement in Coin World about a "coming out " of coin doctors.

Jim
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How about a proof?