Have TPG'ers truly jumped the shark? (NN article)

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by medoraman, Sep 22, 2010.

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  1. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Yeah I read it. It mostly says exactly what I thought it would say. He's been writing pieces along those lines for the past year or so now. Why I have no idea. It's not like it's something new. This has been going on as long as the TPGs have existed. I guess maybe he's finally noticed the same thing I have noticed - that the standards have loosened greatly in recent years and he's getting tired of it.

    He learned to grade about the same time I did, has gone through the same things in the hobby that I have and it looks to be affecting him the same way it's been affecting me. It's gotten to the point that it's disgusting.

    And yes, in one sentence he did use the words "circulation wear". But reality is there is no way to distinguish light circulation wear from cabinet friction or roll friction. There just isn't. But that's because wear is wear period.

    But the situation is getting worse. Example - a year ago there was no such term as album friction. But today, if you check the PCGS Lingo page you'll find it there. It's just another term for them to use to give them an excuse to grade even more coins as MS when they don't deserve to be graded as MS.

    Dave Bowers was writting about this stuff 10 years ago in his weekly columns. So was I. But he fnally got tired of nobody listening and gave up. I haven't. One of these days when it gets bad enough people will wake up and say - ENOUGH !
     
    GDJMSP, Sep 28, 2010
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  3. coleguy

    coleguy Coin Collector

    Well, maybe more collectors will just pick up a few books and learn to grade for themselves, therefore eliminating any controversy. Once again, it makes me wonder how any of us ever got by in the dark ages before TPG's came along and made us dependent and lazy.
    Guy
     
    coleguy, Sep 28, 2010
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  4. mark_h

    mark_h Somewhere over the rainbow

    Now will CaC just certify they met MS standards or the tpg standards? Does that mean a really nice AU-58 coin will get a cac sticker for being something like ms-63?

    Just curious - not looking for a debate on that.
     
    mark_h, Sep 28, 2010
    #43 + Quote Reply
  5. medoraman

    medoraman Supporter! Supporter

    To me, this is inevitable really, and the problem with relying on the TPG business model. They need to continuously have a reason to generate more submissions. At first is was only pre 65 coins, then moderns, then they started giving out 70's, now they are lowering the grading scale. What all of these actions have in common is to give a reason for increased submissions when submissions died down from the last change. With no one being responsible for grades, this cycle can continue endlessly as long as collectors give a darn about the TPG grade. I can see this lasting for a while, then the TPG'ers come out with a "purple label" tag that "is much more strict than our old tags, so therefor much more in demand and everyone should resubmit their coins and pay us again". After a while these grades will loosen up again, then 15 years from now we will be sold "Lavender labels" as more strict.

    Short of an authoritative body setting out standards, this is a joke like Doug says, and will continuously be churned to make money for the TPG'ers. Only way out is to simply ignore their grade and if you want to use them for authentication and trying to ensure the coin hasn't been doctored. This is why I don't play the "condition rarity" game, the playing field is moving too fast and stakes are too high for me to play there, and I really don't care that much abo9ut small differences I guess.
     
    medoraman, Sep 28, 2010
    #44 + Quote Reply
  6. Leadfoot

    Leadfoot there is no spoon

    Melo, I think there is a lot of truth in your post. So much so that if Mike ruled the world, TPGs would be not-for-profit entities. From where I sit, profit and consistency in grading are mutually exclusive over the long term.
     
    Leadfoot, Sep 28, 2010
    #45 + Quote Reply
  7. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    For the most part CAC tends to go along with and agree with the same things that the TPGs agree with. I don't mean that CAC automatically agrees with the grade itself - I mean that they agree that coins with light wear can be graded as MS. That certain coins, even though they have corrosion can be placed in a regular slab. That coins of a certain rarity, a famous pedigree, or great value are given grade bumps that other coins are not given. Things like that.

    So yes, CAC follows the same basic standards that the TPGs use.
     
    GDJMSP, Sep 29, 2010
    #46 + Quote Reply
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