Buyer beware !

Is it ethical to represent a coin like this. eBay policy, and the ethical thing to do is to point out known flaws.....????

Most sellers/buyers use the images of the front and back of companies plastic holders to verify the coin/grade. Should problems of graded coins be pointed out, yes and no. The e-bay rules are very specific when it comes to listing the accepted grading companies slabs and any deviation is not allowed. When the seller uses images of accepted third party graded coins, they are under no obligation to disclose any problems the coin may have developed since it's encapsulation.

This is where e-bay feed back should come into play along with e-bay policies and the sellers policies. Misrepresentation is one of the main causes of buyers complaints and e-bay does take this seriously. e-Bay wants you to do everything possible to resolve dissatisfaction before contacting them with a dispute.

It is totally up to you at this point to decide what recourse you have if any and whether or not your willing to go the distance to resolve this dilemma.

Happy Collecting

 

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Why magnify?

Thank you for your interest and your thoughtful posts from another student. After reading this post I went back and looked closely at this coin without magnification. And it's not really that bad. But you must admit that there is a Lot of difference between the two pics of the holdered coin, and my pic is a bit smaller than than the eBay photo. But you question is legitimate and a tough one for me to answer without sounding like I am making excuses. I guess it's just because I'm a Bone Head. Thank you..... I will add that I purchased this coin about a month ago and even tho I could have returned it, I kept it.................. Coin Talk, Ya gotta love it!

 

You can see the milk spots in the original picture, they are just harder to spot as the contrast from the flash nearly washes them out. The coin was in no way misrepresented as you bid on a PCGS MS66 and received the same. Now the photos don't look juiced, just taken from the best angle with the flash on. Is that a crime, no...unethical...maybe, maybe not, depends on who you ask. But ebay, unless you buy a counterfeit and sometimes even if you do is still caveat emptor. I will occasionally buy and sell on ebay but when buying I scrutinize the pics very, very closely. Maybe you didn't look at them as hard because it was TPG?

 

The coin was obviously intentionally pictured by the seller to hide its problems. There is no doubt in my mind.

In these cases even if the seller does not, or will not, accept returns, eBay/PayPal will always back the buyer. If the buyer puts in a complaint to eBay/PayPal, based on the grounds that the item wasn't as described or pictured, eBay/PayPal will always get your money back.

That has been my experience and of others I know. It's the way eBay/PayPal protects buyers from dishonest sellers.

It's the one thing that I, as a buyer, like about eBay.

 

It's getting to the point where I avoid SleazeBay completely with the exception of a very, very small handful of sellers whom I've known for years. I even had one occasion years ago when a magistrate from Tennessee tried to pull a switch on me by sending a problem CC Morgan instead of the $900 coin that I won.

Chris

 

I wonder though.. I think I have far more slabbed coins that look better in hand than the photographs depict. While this seller may have been trying to deceive, why make a giant deal about it? Just contact the seller and return the coin. This is the risk you take when buying from photos. I don't know how many slabbed coins this seller has listed, nor do I know the value of this coin compared to what you paid for it.. However, I do know how long it takes to photograph and upload and how the eBay pic manager destroys resolution. Do we really expect the seller to capture every little nuance on a certified coin? I know I don't. I think it is unreasonable, after all sellers cry about how much it costs to ship!! lol Where does - Take the good with the bad, factor into this. Here again, buy from pictures, you assume a certain risk, get over it and return, you are out $5 bucks.. big deal.

For example - it is my goal to build a PCGS registry set for 50% of the posted value - all coins from eBay. Where else can you buy like that!?? I got this penny for in the mail yesterday for $35. I actually feel guilty - like I stole it!

 

It actually looks like both. The white spots by his eyebrow - the first one in his eyebrow are in both images, but the one between his eye and hairline is gone, and then there are 2 more in the hairline. I cannot see any evidance in the first image of the cheek scratches, but you would think there would be something. The scratches are in both sets of images just below the Liberty Y.

Either way, his description should have pointed out the defects and not soley relied on the image.

 

Bone Head: How did the Seller describe the coin in the auction listing? Can you quote the listing for us? Was there even a 'useful' written description available for you to base your purchase on along with the image(s) of the slabbed coin?

An ebay seller called shockmeddy has a lot of Ikes and other coins, mostly in PCGS holders, imaged (exactly?) like the Ike the OP is asking about. The coins are not described, just a mention of the PCGS grade, amidst lots of big colorful type and an honest money back return policy.

Regardless of the time and money lost returning the coin, if you still can at this point, it will be far less money lost than what you paid to keep a problem coin that bothers you and will likely remain difficult to resell to another collector later on for the same issues that bother you about the coin. Cut your losses and take advantage of the return policy if you can.

 

Return and neg rep. It's the right thing to do.

 

to me E-bat is give and take, I have had things show up a little worse than they looked on the pic, but I have also had items show up much better looking than the pic. I always ignore any chatter about a coin in the description and just let the pictures do the talking. I know I have been disappointed a couple times, but I have also felt like a theif sometimes getting certain coins for a fraction of their value, it all evens out I suppose. I bought a roll of walking liberty halves the other day for less than 20 bucks on ebay, they were not even listed under any coin areas but in an antique section with some other junk, yeah I felt bad! but maybe it makes up for some things I overpaid for. Have you contacted the buyer and let him/her know of your displeasure? I would have right away and negotiated a partial refund if you think you paid too much, most sellers like to keep their feedback score at 100% they will often work with you!

 

The two pictures are shot at different angles and with radically different lighting. I'm sure it is the same coin, the seller simply chose to image it to its best advantage.

And what would this law say? That all objects being sold must be imaged in the least favorable manner possible so that the buyers will not be disappointed. All coin pictures must be dark out of focus hubble space telescope shots. That way no matter what you get it will be better than you expected.

 

Of course there could never be a law, but I think the point is that, ideally, descriptions should be neither less favorable nor more favorable, but accurate. Ebay is a haven for people unloading their lesser-quality stuff with misleading images.

 

I believe it is the same coin. It looks like the holder is dirty/scratched and the lighting is different in the two pics. Of course that might make it look different, but it is the proper coin. IMHO

 

You have to agree that in this example the seller had to notice the flaws and didn't just shoot the coins in a good light, he shot then with the intent to deceive the buyer..

 

Wait a minute.... There is something I don't understand. There is a 3 page thread on a top tier certified coin as being misrepresented? huh? what? A certified coin with a current value around $30? It was misrepresented because the seller took a picture of his MS66 and it didn't show the details that made it grade 66 and not 67?

Doesn't it cost $30 or more about to have a coin certified?... shipping back and forth + certification..

I wonder, how much did the OP pay for this certified coin? was it less than the posted value of $30 for a MS66 1972s Silver Ike?

What is this complaint about again? That this coin should not grade MS66?

Now that I think about it some more, this is more of a... seller beware of this buyer.



This whole thread would have a valid point if it was a Raw coin. I am sorry, now that I think about it some more. I think it is lame to buy a High Grade certified coin and then complain that the seller should have photographed it's defects.

IMO the buyer has more of a beef with the grading service if he feels the defects lower the grade below MS66 otherwise... oh nevermind.. this is dumb

 

I agree somewhat. I asked the OP about his thoughts on the grade in post #12 but got no reply, just that he was thinking about this angle in his post #19, very bottom.

I think a lot of the topic of the thread is distorted by peoples ideas (distaste for) ebay and the sellers in general. The seller could be a super lazy antique mall booth operator who could care less about how the coin is imaged and simply wanted to list it and move the piece, now drawing the unfortunate ire of collectors scrutinizing the photos and raising the torches and pitchforks. We need more details of the listing as I also inquired about and have yet to see further info furnished.

 

How about not placing blame anywhere? There are attractive 66's and unattractive. This is an unattractive one, clearly, IMO, misleadingly photographed by the seller. The buyer has the right to return the coin and stay away from this seller in the future.

 

My suggestion is when you see a coin (raw or slabbed) online that you want to buy, just ask the seller if they are willing to send you higher quality photos with different lighting before you place a bid. If they don't respond or they say they cannot, don't bid. A return policy is ok as a last resort.
I have had nearly all of my operating capitol eliminated by paying the initial shipping and then having to pay return shipping with signature required on multiple purchases on eBay. Ask lots of questions before you bid and if the seller does not appear responsive, then you should not expect much better after you have received the item.
In closing, it is not a case of "buyer beware", it is in fact "buyer be wise"
(and somewhat annoying if need be)

 

You could post a link to the auction, then we can see who the seller is.

 

ah yep .. I fell into that trap. for sure..

Agreed... but really...? I think this whole issue says more about OP than it does about a eBay coin seller who apparently didn't bother to scrutinize the accuracy of his photo. Do we really believe that he took the time to edit the photo to deceive in order to increase the amount up to a max of $30 .. Whatever

Agreed!