Not sure anyone saw this (gold tax in healthcare bill)

Those already outraged by the president's health care legislation now have a new bone of contention -- a scarcely noticed tack-on provision to the law that puts gold coin buyers and sellers under closer government scrutiny... This provision, intended to mine what the IRS deems a vast reservoir of uncollected income tax, was included in the health care legislation ostensibly as a way to pay for it. The tax code tweak is expected to raise $17 billion over the next 10 years, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation.

Juts do a search, you'll find more info and details.

Makes me proud!!!

 

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Somehow, I feel diferently than you. No body likes paying taxes, but without them, what do we have ? Not to discuss socialist programs like a Federal military or public education, taxes are a necessary evil.

I can state that prior to policies adopted under the Reagan administration, the economy ran like a Swiss watch. 90% tax brackets meant the wealthy spent money on deductible items. Race horses, yachts, expensive business lunches, etc. Money flowed through the economy. Changes in the tax laws caused this flow to become barely a trickle. Now we look at what the long term consequences are. Industries like luxury boat builders have collapsed here. So, in theory, while we all agree on many points about taxation or lack of it. We certainly are not as prosperous as we once were. Cyclic trend ? Maybe, but we still have very low taxes compared to the rest of the world.

The beauty of freedom in this country, is there is no fence or border guard to keep someone here. Make a lot of money, pay a lot of taxes. So make more money IMHO

 

If you followed that same advice about doing a search but did it first on CT before starting this thread, you'd find a few threads, some already a couple months old, already discussing this gold tax proposal too. :thumb:

 

I did a search, maybe not the right tags...and it's no longer a proposal.

 

put 1099 into the search box

Jim

 

yep, good info there...

I'm totally reconsidering investing now.

 

Thanks Jim! :thumb:

"1099" is indeed all it should have taken to find something in a search... and these are probably not even all of the threads there are here. These turn up with the easiest thread titles to spot in a quick scan of search results:

Constructive action on 1099 situation

NEW TAX requirements on gold sales over $600 (THIS IS A BIG DEAL)

Gold Coins and Obamacare, what is the correlation? Yipes!

IRS & Your Coins

Taxation on coin sales


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A wealthy man I did some work for years ago and I were discussing my tax position on some raw land I had bought and had a buyer for.

He told me then. "make your best deal, pay the taxes and get into something else" he also said that by not investing you lose just by sitting out. If profit is decreased by 10%, increase your position. Eventually, with all the electronic records, all investment profits are going to be taxed. If you are bullish on gold right now, then BUY ! Take the profit, pay the tax and re-invest.

Not investing is a sure way to lose. IMHO

 

The title of this thread is inaccurate.

The clause in question is not a new tax. It is simply requiring additional paperwork (i.e. reporting to the government) making it harder to under-report taxes due under current regulations. There are no new taxes.

If you pay your fair share of taxes on your investments, you should have nothing to worry about (IMO). If you try and hide transactions, you (IMO) should reconsider your course of action when this is implemented.

 

Correct. And it is not just on gold buying and selling it covers all businesses and products.

 

If you are planning on selling your coin collection and bullion in the near term - you might consider doing it before July of next year. As the January 1, 2012 comes closer - dealers will steadily decrease their cash price paid for inventory purchased from individuals trying to beat the 1099 deadline.

Of course the rules and regulations concerning this legislation have yet to be drafted. Probably will wait until after the elections before any serious effort is put forth in doing so.

 

Where to start, well our GDP skyrocketed after Reagan put into place his tax policies, so our standard of living overall went up. You look back at Carter and Ford years fondly? You are one of the few. We are richer than we ever were, (until recently), though you may not have received it, overall our country has.

The yachting industry went down in this country because of the tax placed on them to obstensibly raise money, but to really "punish" people rich enough to own yachts. The ones suffering are the working class who used to build them. Taxes destroy, or at least most taxes. I agree infrastructure can create wealth, defense is a necessary evil, (though we overdo it), and some regulation is helpful. I would argue, though, that 80% of government spending is harmful to the economy, taking away the ability of citizens to create real economic prosperity.

The lack of a 90% tax rate means that there is capital around to fund new companies, new jobs, etc. Government anywhere is a horrible allocator of resources, private industry does it much better. The Soviet Union proved that, as does Cuba, Nazi Germany, Venezuela, etc etc.

Low tax rate? That is complete rubbish. When you consider Federal, State, excise taxes, estate taxes, (coming back next year), fees, sales taxes, property taxes, payroll taxes, the average American only keeps less than 1/3rd of his pay. We are as high as almost any country on earth. When you here of a tax rate of 60% in a foreign country, that is because that is the only tax levied. If you think that is low, then how much higher should they go? 100%? Many politicians would love to take your whole check and then make you beg them for food and shelter, since then THEY get to pick the winners and losers. The richer Americans keep even less, leaving less capital to form new companies and create real jobs, not political cronyism.

 

medoraman - good post...and right on target.

 

OK, argue it. Convince me.

 

I thought it was complete rubbish when I read it to. Then I did a little research, and there is an argument to be made....

Here is the aggregate personal and corporate tax rate by developed country:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_rates_around_the_world

You can see where the US is for yourself. We are on the low end on personal, and on the high end on corporate tax rates.

I'm glad I don't live in Denmark or Sweeden.

 

For the US to have among the lowest taxes on earth (even IF that were true) is no reason to keep increasing them every chance the gov't gets. Eventually that rationale will end. Taxing gold/gold coin purchases as an earmark to the health-care scam, I mean, bill, is back handed and very conniving. Lord knows what else has been tagged for taxes. Transparency indeed!

 

Dude. I don't know how more blunt I can be. THERE ARE NO NEW TAXES IN THIS LEGISLATION!!!

 

I have seen these graphs but they are misleading. We have many taxes and fees not on this listing, so they are ignored. Property taxes in MN range from $2000 to $8000 for a typical house. Those are ignored here. Excise taxes, estate and inheritance taxes, utility taxes, phone surcharges, etc are not on this chart at all. You pay so many taxes that you never pay attention to or know they are there its sick.

Also, look at England for Payroll taxes. They list national health insurance tax in comparison to our payroll taxes. Huh? Our health insurance is above and beyond taxes, so that on the face of it is wrong. Also, state taxes for most states do not allow federal deduct, which means a 10% tax is really a 16% tax for the state. Taxes are so different that its hard to compare in simplistic charts like this. Simply think of all of the taxes you pay to all levels of government, include sin taxes which are huge, gas taxes, car registration, fees like school fees and books, everything. If you are below 67% you are very lucky. Other countries have high taxes, but you get unlimited unemployment benefits, free healthcare, free college, free elder care, and lots of other perks. We pay about the same as them all told, and get none of these things. So who do you think is overtaxed?

 

You are right, no new taxes in theory. However, in practice now the IRS will have access to records showing your activity and will be able to audit your P&L on coin transactions and require you to pay on gains. Is this a new tax? No, but most people have never paid it even though legally they have always owed it. That is why they say it will raise money.

I am not going to say whether it was right or wrong to never pay the taxes owed on sales before. That is another question.

 

Other countries have, to varying degrees, the same type of taxes we pay in the US. For instance, they call property tax a "council tax" in England.

Do you know someone who lives out of the country? Call them and ask them about all the taxes they pay -- from what I gather, I have to tell you we aren't that bad. I spoke to a good friend who just moved to Prague and lived in Germany in years past. He said he pays more in taxes in both countries than he did in the US.

Your point about varying levels of government programs is a very good one.

All that said, it seems to me that governments globally are a huge burden on taxpayers.

The alternative, however, is not particularly appealing either...MIke