Early USA proofs

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by texmech, Aug 13, 2010.

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  1. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    You're right - flow lines are what causes luster. But it's not the flow lines in the dies that do it - it's the flow lines in the metal. And every coin there is that was ever struck, even Proofs, has luster because of it. Flow lines in the dies actually reduce the luster a coin has because they disrupt the uniformity of the flow lines in the metal of the coin.
     
    GDJMSP, Aug 16, 2010
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  3. Leadfoot

    Leadfoot there is no spoon

    IMO, proofs are sold to collectors -- that started in the US in 1858. Earlier coins are (again IMO) better termed "presentation" or "specimen" strikes....Mike
     
    Leadfoot, Aug 16, 2010
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  4. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    But Proofs, and Specimen or Presentation pieces are different things. Proof after all is merely a method of manufacture. And that method is different than the one used for Specimen or Presentation pieces.

    Proofs, even the very first Proof, were made with specially prepared polished dies and specially prepared polished planchets. And they were always struck at higher pressures and more than once, sometimes many times.

    Specimen and Presentation pieces were always struck only once with ordinary business strike dies and usually on ordinary planchets. One exception to this would be when Spanish colonial cob coinage was being issued. Then the Presentation pieces were struck on special planchets. But the only thing that made them special was that they only used fully round planchets of a uniform thickness - as opposed to the rough cobs of the business strikes.

    So because the method of manufacture for Proofs is different, they cannot be called anything but Proofs.
     
    GDJMSP, Aug 16, 2010
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  5. Treashunt

    Treashunt The Other Frank

    From the ANA:


    The left:
    The restrike, from the King of Siam period, sets:

    [​IMG]


    The left is a pattern in (I believe) silver.

    Of course, if I am wrong, Doug will immediatly correct me.

    ;)
     
    Treashunt, Aug 16, 2010
    #24 + Quote Reply
  6. Treashunt

    Treashunt The Other Frank

    hey, my own picture is not viewable!
     
    Treashunt, Aug 16, 2010
    #25 + Quote Reply
  7. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Nahhhhhh - ya got one right this time :D
     
    GDJMSP, Aug 16, 2010
    #26 + Quote Reply
  8. Treashunt

    Treashunt The Other Frank

    phew.

    okay: Me=1
    Doug= 10,698.
     
    Treashunt, Aug 16, 2010
    #27 + Quote Reply
  9. spock1k

    spock1k King of Hearts



    poor GD he has just started laughing and i am going to pay him a visit :D
     
    spock1k, Aug 17, 2010
    #28 + Quote Reply
  10. Conder101

    Conder101 Numismatist

    They early proofs were NOT always made with special dies. In face on one of the early proof large cents it can be shown by die states that a regular business strike die that had already been used in production was polished, used to strike proofs, used for business strikes again, repolished for more proofs, and then terminated on business strikes. there are other case were dies used for business strikes were polished and used for proofs even though the dies had die cracks. There are proofs struck from overdated dies.

    Actually it is NOT a pattern, it is a fantasy. Both coins are "piece de caprice". The 1804 gold eagle was struck in 1834, the silver piece possibly 1834 and maybe even 1858. It isn't a true pattern, just something made to sell to a collector. (but it is pictured and cataloged in Judd.) The proof 1801,02,and 03 dollars are also pieces made in 1834 or later strictly for sale to collectors. Most likely when they made up the dies for the 1804 dollar they made four obv dies so the best one could be picked for the presentation set, or to have spares on hand if the die failed during hardening. After the 1804 dollars were struck they used the leftover dies to create the fantasy proof dollars. This was also the source of the 1834, 1835, and 1836 proof bust halves. These dollars and the halves were all done in the 1830's and all shows crushed edge letters from having been struck on lettered edge planchets in a plain collar. (As do the "original" 1804 dollars.)
     
    Conder101, Aug 17, 2010
    #29 + Quote Reply
  11. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    OK, I should have said they were usually made with special dies.
     
    GDJMSP, Aug 17, 2010
    #30 + Quote Reply
  12. jello

    jello Not Expert★NormL®

    T/H :thumb:that one nice photo
    &
    a great set of Restrikes!!!
     
    jello, Aug 17, 2010
    #31 + Quote Reply
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