Anyone Have an 1875 Dot Cent?

For those of you who don't know the story: In 1875, a Mint employee was a suspect for stealing coins from the press he was operating, so that year, the dies of the pennies struck on his machine were changed: a raised dot on the N in ONE on the reverse of the coin, so if any of the "Dot Cents" were found missing, they would know. So, does anybody have one? Nobody on eBay or even online has them! I look and look and look and never have found them.

 

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About 3 years ago i read that story someplace. I would like to get one of those cents.
Dean 295

 

I think only one has been found, and it is rather suspect.

 

If the die made a full run then you should expect to see one out of about every 30 pieces. But you also have to rmember that this was a raised dot on a raised design feature so it would be expected to wear off quickly. It would probabyl only be clearly visible on XF or better coins.

 

Never heard of it. My question, relating to the story, would be how would they know that a dot cent was missing? Did they sort out the pennies by dot and no dot and then check versus production records? If they didn't, then they would have kept the pennies from separate machines in different bins. If that were the case, why mark the dot?

The story sounds like it was made up to explain a dot on a penny, not the other way around. Either that or I am just not getting why the mint would place the dot.

 

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The dot was put on so that the money on the coin press operator could be checked for the dot. The story is not made up, it is well documented, the coins have been searched for decades.

 

right but how are you going to know he took it? count every single one?

 

So it was that they could search HIM for coins afterwards and see if he had any contraband pennies? If they allowed him to walk to his job with money on him, I would wonder how they would prove the penny was stolen from the press and not received as change from the local merchant if they allowed these dot cents into circulation.

I am not saying the story was not out there, it just doesn't really make sense. If this is true, then they should just not allow anyone to enter the work floor with change, that way any coins on them are by definition stolen. Finding a dot cent among the workers change would not legally prove anything unless they never allowed any of his production into circulation.

 

To my knowledge nary a one has been authenticated, only speculated. The story is documented with Mint correspondence relating to a Mint employee at Philadelphia pilfering cents from the coining press. If true, there's a chance that 1 in 450 is possible.

A raised mark had been found on the N of the reverse of the 1875, but if you ask me it's nothing more than a die chip.

<<Finding a dot cent among the workers change would not legally prove anything unless they never allowed any of his production into circulation.>>

That's the key element, the supposedly secretly marked cent had not yet been released into circulation, so if an employee of the Mint had one in his pocket, well then it was taken at some point after being struck and would have been impossible to get from outside sources, IE; bank, commerce transaction.

 

If he had a cent with the dot, then he stole it.

 

I thunk a thought. I bet the dot is in the top ear of corn. No one would ever notice it there, that's why none have been found.

 

I love this story ! It certainly helps verify a point I have been trying to make about another coin, the 1988 D DRV=006. The Mint has always kept meticulous records. They have a precise count and they know which dies produced a certain exact number of coins. They were doing this in 1875 for an internal audit.

Point being that if a transition or any other variety is stamped, the mint has the production numbers. They won't or don't realese them, so we need to find other means that are guesses at the population. And even if they make a mistake like with the 92D and the 88/89, the number is known, someplace. By not releasing info, amy mistakes are glossed over. Which is fine, if you don't collect coins.

This is great ! Thanks !

 

They know how many coins each die made but that doesn't usually help you to know how many of a particular variety were struck. Take your 1988 D DRV=006 for example. Yes in theory you could go to the records and find out how many were struck, but only if you know the serial number of the die that produced them. I don't know if thy still do, but at times they have kept one piece from each die used, but even those were mormally only kept until the die was destroyed. So unless the variety is discovered in the same year it was made the die and the reference coin are both long gone. So no chance of determining which die made it or how many were made.

 

That is the point. The mint has the serial number of every die. Their record keeping is and has been meticulous. They can run 6 billion cents and know the exact number to the coin ! I mean we have cent mintages that end in 3. LOL They track every die.

No one will ever make me believe they don't have an exact record. With the 88, I think someone started changing the dies. Probably had a box of the 89 hammers. So swapped those out first. Went to lunch, came back and they started stamping coins. QC looks at the run and stops the run. They grab the box of 89 anvil dies and swap those. Coins are in the bags. They write the report and file it. No biggie. But it is to us. lol

No way to prove my theory, because no one from the mint is talking. But I worked with my hands and tools for 45 years, and I can see that happening on any job. It is the kind of thing that happens in shops, construction, etc. Anyplace things are made.

Instead of everyone finding all the supposedly minted coins from 6 dies, people are going to find them more scarce than thought, and collections aren't really complete without the transition coins. IMHO

 

if they kept such good records then how did the mint supervisor of san Francisco think he was going to get away with the 1894S's?

 

Someone (who is much more interested in the answer than I am) should try and get the PBS History Detectives on the job.

 

Here's the description from Rick Snow's Attribution Guide:


Rev. T3-S: An irregular die chip is visible on the upper portion of the N in ONE. Olive leaf and right shield point well away from the denticles. Die crack from the denticles just left of 12:00 to the shield continuing to the left wreath and snaking down through the wreath to

the left most olive leaf and connecting to the denticles at 8:00. Attributed to: Tom Culhane​

And here's the story as it appeared in Coin World in 2008:​

Is Dot on 1875 Cent Reverse the Secret Mark?​

by acenh (08/03/08).​

The hunt to identify a “secret mark” on the reverse of an 1875 Indian Head cent which has persisted for some thirty-six years may have finally been successful. This year a coin appraiser, assessing coins for an auction had his attention drawn to a particular 1875 Indian cent. The coin had a tiny raised dot on one of the letters in the denomination.​

Could the dot be the “secret mark” placed on the reverse die of the 1875 Indian Head Cent to catch an employee of the Philadelphia Mint suspected of pilfering coins from the press he was operating?​

A numismatic archivist had written an article in 1972 in “Numismatic Scrapbook” magazine alerting the world to the fact that such cents with a “secret mark” had been produced in 1875. This was authenticated by correspondence found in the National Archives. At this time it was noted that no such coins had ever been found, and he challenged, “Where are they?” Then this cent was uncovered this year.​

It could be that the die was removed from the Philadelphia Mint press after the employee had been caught, then kept as evidence. About 30,000 were coined from this die. Such a coin may be found today at the ratio of 1 to every 450 cents.​

Now that the collector knows what to look for, we may quickly learn how many survived.​

Resource: “Coin World, August 4, 2008.​

 

are yu still looking for the 1875 Dot Reverse?