How do you feel about slabbing?

Not trying to defend myself, more just explaining to anyone reading where my assumptions came from so they can follow. I really do appreciate constructive criticism, it helps sharpen your own thoughts on an idea, as well as make the thread easier for others to understand. I know I have my own definite thoughts, but if I, (or anyone), strays off the reservation its good to have someone reel them back in.

Chris

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

To ignore conditional rarities entirely is a reaction based on emotion. Here are the facts as they relate to your example.

The 1944-D Mercury Dime has a total mintage of 62,224,000.

In MS67 FB the population is 2,298/100. That is 23 to 1 my friend. The prices for MS67FB and MS68FB are $120 and $750 respectively (Numismedia Wholesale). Now I respect your choice not to spend the extra money on the MS68 because you don't feel it is worth it, but to declare that the price difference should be only $10 is tantamount to an admission on your part that you can't tell the difference between the MS67 & MS68.

 

So you can? I am being serious, you can pick out, out of 100 coins, the 50 graded MS67 and the 50 graded MS68? Even if different TPG'ers graded them? If you can my hat is off to you my friend. I am not being flippant, I really mean it.

 

When Sheldon came up with his numbering system, each point of grade was supposed to mean it was worth $1 more. This meant a VF30 was worth half as much as a MS60. That is where the numbers came from. I am simply pointing out what I view as outrageous premiums on what underliningly is a common date coins existing in the millions. To me the pricing situation today looks exactly like 1989, before it all imploded and was shown to be a huge ponzi scheme.

Maybe I am wrong, maybe these prices will continue like this forever. I just wonder where the new base support, the kids trying to collect all of the lincoln pennies, will come to support this in the future. Its an awful lot of money for a grade difference I would bet more than half, (way more), of all collectors cannot see reliably. Can I see the difference between a 20 and a 30? Yeah. Can I see the difference between a 63 and a 65, most always. Between a 67 and 68? Most of the time no, I would have an opinion but very well could be wrong. So could the TPG'er.

 

I like slabbed coins when the numismatic value is significant for one primary reason. I will not be the one selling many of these coins. When my kids sell them, I don't want some dishonest dealer telling them the coins are XF when they are MS, or telling them they are MS60 when they are MS65. This will give them a better shot at getting full value.

 

This is true for me too, although it is a secondary reason. If I want to sell a piece while I'm alive, it just makes it a lot easier if it's in a slab (for the U.S. coins I collect).

When I returned to coin collecting a few years ago, I disdained slabs as being unnecessary. However, as I learned more and my tastes got more expensive, I then realized that I wanted the reassurance that what I saw in the coin was reflected in the slab label (along with the resale reason previously mentioned). Spending big bucks (as that term relates to my financial circumstances) without having the coin authenticated is unwise.

I also know that I'm still learning about grading. Being a type collector, I don't think my grading skills/knowledge can keep up with all the coin types I want to own (and I don't want to spend the time to learn enough before acquiring a coin I want). So, I do my best to look a the coin first and the slabber grade second. I've made some mistakes, but think I've learned from them. Still more learning to do!

 

One of the best reasons for slabs I have heard. I guess I am 20 years from retirement so I am not worrying about that yet. Either that or I am just selfish and don't care how much my heirs get when they sell my precious coins.

Seriously, I can see this point, as well as guaranteeing authenticity for buyers. I will give the pro slab community those points.

 

Slabs..I can take or leave them. I buy the coin, not the plastic, so it never matters to me whether it resides in a slab or in a cardboard holder. The TPG's serve their purpose, and on occasion exceed their purpose, but the buyer always has the option to buy slabbed or not slabbed any time they want, so it's irrelevant.
Guy~

 

I bought my first and only slabbed coin a few weeks ago because I love the toning of the coin. That it was slabbed was secondary as the guy had several unslabbed coins with toning. I bought the coin not the holder and I love the coin and intend to keep it

Link to coin http://www.cointalk.com/t120276/

 

I am really unlearned about this, but shouldn't you buy raw and sell slabbed ? I mean the price difference seems to warrant the grading fees ?

 

buy most of my coins pre-slabbed ... actually this post caught my attention bec. cracked a 1904-O DMPL by PCI (MS-63) and am going to send it in to NGC

 

If you are very knowledgeable about the authenticity, grading, original surfaces and market pricing for each type, then yes this would be great to avoid slabbing expense and/or make money. However, there are a great many coins that would not receive a grade or are counterfeit. Without knowledge, one could lose a lot of money buying a raw coin expecting it to be slabbed with an anticipated grade, only to be badly disappointed. That can be expensive tuition!

 

I can't do it with every series and I don't know how accurate I would be with Mercury Dimes since I have not collected them since the late 90's. However, I think you would be amazed at how accurately I can grade Jefferson Nickels. There is a difference between MS65-MS66-MS67 and I know what the differences are. While we are on that subject, can you tell the difference between an MS63 and MS64. It seems that you would like to return to the days of MS60 and MS65. What your are forgetting is all the problems that were inherent with such a generic grading system.

 

My only concern about this is that it may not come back as a DPL (NGC's equivalent). I think the PCI standard for reflectivity was slightly looser than the NGC standard.

Chris

 

One of the biggest reasons for buying certified coins is none other than eBay! This photo was the topic of discussion on the NGC forums. The seller who posted this photo on eBay supposedly cracks the coins and sells them at inflated prices, with of course!, the typical disclaimer, I'm no grader so judge for yourself.

Buying raw coins on eBay is like sitting on a self-destruct button. Thanks to Photoshop and manipulated photography, you have no way of knowing if the coin is authentic, overgraded, AT'ed or doctored in some other way.

I see a lot of NGC & PCGS inserts in the pile. There goes the Census!

Chris

 

I will admit that I am more of the passive member of the forum...reading a lot more than posting. However, since the original poster asked I am inclined to respond and perhaps leave my neck out on the chopping block. For the majority of the collecting needs I have, slabbing is a waste. Medoraman probably put the issue in more fluid terms than I can express here, but I find slab submissions a waste of money for typical overminted coins, lower grades, and for coins people should be educated enough to judge as counterfit or ungradeable themselves. As for collecting slabs, I find that the plastic puts a premium on a coin and I refuse to buy into it. I also realize that the coins in slabs are somewhat subjectively graded by humans-error is certainly to be involved somewhere and I don't want the slab coin I purchase to be that error; I would rather rely on my own grading scales and have my collection consistently off by a couple points. My last beef with slabs: I find it makes incompetent individuals in our hobby. Leading collectors on this site give the advice, "Buy the coin not the slab," so many times but I still see people at the dealer drooling over the grade sticker instead of the coin. Shame they can't (or are too lazy) to learn to grade for themselves.

There is some good in grading companies. If I am looking at this correctly, they set a standard for coin grading...or at least should in some respect. When one buys a MS62 the individual knows what to expect in the hallmarks of grading (ie. luster, strike, details of a series). They also authenticate the difficult...keys, errors, varieties, toning. As I can't afford most keys and I am not a fan of toning I stay away, but I do understand that some collectors need that verification and grading companies putting a coin and designation on a slab can provide this security.

So, overall, no. I do not like slabs and will not collect them. They have a purpose, but I see more harm than good come from them. I realize others love them, and my hat is off to them. To each there own.

 

OK, a question now. As a novice, do you guys recommend me getting a very scarce find slabbed after authentication ?

 

What method do/did you use to get it authenticated?

 

I can usually tell the difference of what a TPGer would label a 63 versus 64, not that I would agree with desirability. The problem is that every coin is unique, and when you get that fine a difference, (heaven forbid +), its TOO fine a grade really. I would not argue with someone wanting to grade it, though I think 2 graders would disagree a lot down to a one point difference, and TPG companies definitely disagree. I just think this slabbing of tiny differences in grade has led to false pricing on tiny differences. If VF is 20, XF 30, AU 40, MS61 60, MS 63 75, MS 65 100, I would agree that those prices may be logical. I just picked the 44d out of the blue, but telling me there is such a HUGE difference between 67 and 68 proves my point. I don't think most collectors can judge the difference accurately, so why such a premium for what is a VERY VERY common date and type. People now think a 68 is a whole other coin than a 67, basically because of slabbing.

Then there is still the fact that pop reports are wrong, slabbing guarantees grade inflation, etc. You posted the pop report, how many times did some get graded 67, cracked open, resubmitted until they got 68? I have heard of coins getting resubmitted 10, 15 times to get a higher grade. If they get graded too high they are NEVER leaving that holder, guaranteed. By definition pop reports are wrong, but people use them like they are the bible.

 

If you mean the one I'm thinking of, the answer is an emphatic, "YES!"

Chris