1922 Lincoln Penny Plain - No "D" - Weak Reverse

I just came across this the other day in my father's old coin collection. First off, is this truly a 1922 No D Weak Reverse? The best conclusion I could draw is that it's a Die Type 3, No D. What would you say the condition is... possibly AU-50 or higher, I'm thinking?

PCGS lists the value of an XF-40 No D Weak Reverse as being worth $1250, however I believe this would receive a better grade, right? Realistically, what could I expect to get for this? I haven't seen many on eBay (most of them are the strong reverse variety, which I hear is worth a lot more). Would a coin dealer give me a fair price? Should I send it into PCGS? I'm new to coin collecting so I'm a little lost here.

Thanks!!

 

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My first take is a fake. The L in Lincoln must be on the rim to be dike #3. leaving now, so I can't fill in any.

 

Two things:

1. Looks like the mm was removed so I question the authenticity of this being the 1922 No D.

2. The criteria for this coin to grade AU, there has to be slight wear on cheek, jaw, and wheat stalks. Your coin exhibits a lot of wear on those points, and many scrathes and bagmarks.

My opinion on grade, G-4.

 

Unfortunately the coin has been harshly cleaned. It's value will be substantially less. The PCGS price is WAY too high for a no D weak reverse. I see these selling for $250-800 at best on the market. Nonetheless, it's worth having it slabbed. I would send it to NGC. Whatever you do, do not send it to ANACS. They put the "weak D" designation on all none die pair 2 coins.

 

I am convinced that is a fake. Beside LIBERTY, the "IN GOD WE TRUST" and "PLURIBUS" are just too strong for die #3 and it is not #1 or #4. See http://www.lincolncentresource.com/1922Ddievarieties.html. The only thing that might change my mind would be if the reverse were rotated about 15° counterclockwise.

Piecewise, were it real, PCGS is way too high and weak reverse prices tend to bounce all over. I do not think it would make AU, but it is close. Although, as mentioned, it has probably been cleaned. Just guessing, you might get $20 $25 for it.

 

His coin exhibits only slight wear, but a lot of very weak strike.

 

Hey.. thanks for the replies thus far.

These are my feelings about the grade too. I feel that it's in excellent condition on the obverse side (at least XF, if not AU), and the reverse is not worn but muddy due to a bad strike based on the worn die, which would be consistent with this being a genuine coin. How is a coin generally graded? Do they average the condition of obverse/reverse, or does the condition of the obverse weigh more heavily into the equation perhaps?

Regarding the coin being fake or even harshly cleaned.... I just don't see how this is possible. It has been sitting in a coin holder since the early 1960's, and before that was just a coin in circulation that my dad placed in the holder as a young teenager. Why would someone fake this coin back in the 60's, and put it back into circulation? That doesn't make sense to me. And it certainly hasn't been cleaned, unless it was cleaned prior to my dad coming across it almost 50 years ago.

It's so hard to tell, but I believe the reverse has a slight counterclockwise rotation to it. Also, IMO, the L does butt up against the rim... anyone else agree? Hmmmm.... I sure hope this thing is real.

 

Picture are very hard to judge a coin by. Take it to a coin dealer.

As for it not being a fake because your dad found it 50 years ago, they started faking coins 500 or more years ago. "Why would someone fake this coin back in the 60's, and put it back into circulation?" - because someone found it was a fake. Believe me. That is as good a reason as any to put that coin in circulation. I went through many several boxes of pennies 50+ years ago and never found a coin that good shape from the 20's.

 

Well, thanks for the feedback. I did take the coin to a couple dealers today and both of them are calling it a weak D, but didn't make me much of an offer on it. Neither one questioned whether or not it was a fake, but they both said it had been cleaned at one point. They both told me the one to have is the no D strong reverse (duh!).

Anyhow, even if this is a weak D (I can't see a D, but maybe there's the faintest mint mark there), PCGS rates it as being valued at $100 in F-12 condition and $350 in XF-40. Am I within that ballpark here, at least? I've looked at a lot of pictures of ANACS, PCGS and PNG rated coins on eBay and this to me looks most similar to the XF-40-45 graded coins I've found. What grade would you guys assign to this coin?

 

When you are talking a hole filler coin (and that is really what a weak "D" really is) cleaning will make a significant difference. Also, PCGS price chart is for PCGS graded coins and they command a premium. For instance, I paid $75 for an ANACS certified weak "D" (VF-30).

 

The coin is VF-20 cleaned, $10-15. I'm sorry to shatter your dream of this being a $100+ coin, it simply is not. Sometimes the newer folks take offense to what the experienced tell them, please do not be mad at me. I am simply telling the you truth.

 

LOL, well I'm not mad at anybody. I appreciate any and all feedback and your time. I'm just a little disappointed but I can handle the bad news. At first before I knew anything about coins a couple days ago, I spotted the '22 after looking through a generic price guide for old coins and matching it up with what I've got, and it was reporting prices of $2000+ for a '22 no D (didn't distinguish between weak/strong reverse, die #'s, etc), so I thought I had a $2000 coin! LOL, I went around telling everyone - until I did a little more research and found out that what I have is a cleaned, ~VF-20 weak D... doh!

 

But a lot of people don't even have that to plug a hole in their album. It won't be the last time or person to read a general price guide and order the Mercedes before they get realistic advice.

Jim

 

Check out the TY on liberty, they need to be much thicker than the rest of the letters to be the correct obverse. Also, compare the moto which should be faint on an authentic weak d. And the 2's look alike to me, when you see a true 22 anything(weak or strong) in person you will see how different they are. I like to check out Heritage auction archives for photo comparisons as well as answeres to your pricing questions. Looks like a tooled /circulated 22 d to me.

 

And at least it doesn't sound like anyone paid too much for the coin. While going through the collection I'm working with for a relative, I came across a rather worn "weak D" in a "plain" slot in an album. A notation indicated that it had been purchased for over 200. Was a real letdown when I looked at it with magnification and saw the mark.

 

That was a lot on my line of thinking, but 2 dealers looked at in hand and said real, but weak "D" and cleaned

 

Well... I wonder about those dealers. The first looked at it with his naked eye, under no light. Almost right away he said "I see a D". I couldn't believe it. I can't really see one under high magnification, but I guess these guys are "experts". The second guy looked at it under a loop and light, and didn't say anything about it being fake, just that it was cleaned and a weak D.

Anyhow, I paid ZERO for this coin, so I can't feel too bad about it. I'm sure it had a lot of potential at one point, before it was cleaned and if it were in better condition, but oh well.

 

This is a section of your drawing. I am pretty sure what they are talking about as a weak "D" is what I have marked. FWIW, the no "D" is defined as no evidence detectable with 5X power.

 

Well, I ended up sticking it up on eBay for buy-it-now $135 just for the hell of it, with a big disclaimer in bold about the grade of the coin that I'm not too sure about it, and I put it up as a "No D/Very Weak D" as I've seen other people list it. It ended up selling within 4 hours. I'm thinking I could have gotten more for it now, but I can't be too disappointed based on the remarks of people in the forum saying it's only worth $10-$15 - I guess it's worth what someone is willing to pay for it.

Anyhow, again thanks again for everyone's help. Just bought a couple nice Morgans that I'll post up for you guys to look at pretty soon.

 

You really need to educate yourself when getting to obtain a22 no D. I was filling my fathers old Lincoln penny collection When I came across to fill 1922 no D. Immediately I found one on E bay for 600.00 I purchased it and quickly put it in my alblum. a year later I sent it to PCGS to be graded. Came back F 15 weak D valued 95.00 and now it is slabbed So I struck it up to education Now I just Purchased A slabed 22 no D Weak reverse400.00 thinking weak reverse must of been from circulation wear. Wrong Again Now I learn about Die # 2 forStrong ReverseFor the real No D This one is costing me 570.00 Any new coin collectors out there Do your home work and don’t summize anything