Ancient Find

Here's an ancient Roman coin of a common type. This example likely came from some hoard. These are new photos. I like the fact that some mint luster still shows on this 1,760 year old silver coin. In condition like this, it is not common, a good example of 'condition rarity.'

The emperor was Philip the Arab. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_the_Arab

While there may be better examples somewhere, I am pleased to own this one. I'll estimate its grade at Near Gem, or MS-64.

 

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Wow, that's an impressive coin. Far, far better looking than any ancient examples I've ever had myself.

 

great coin but I realy wanted to comment on your photography skills , well done !

 

very nice

 

Nice coin (esp. the obverse) but the photography is better.

 

very cool, thanks for sharing

 

Me too! Great pics!

 

Very nice photo but much more than that a very nice coin

Marcus Julius Philippus was Emperor from 244 to 249. He was born in Shahba, in the Roman province of Syria. Was possibly a descendants of the prestigious Baleed family of Aleppo. He was in fact Born a Roman Citizen
There were a number of uprisings against him which he defeted but He himself was defeted in battle by the Userper Gaius Messius Quintus Decius (Who became empror) and died possibly killed by his own troops?

 

Yes, Philip the Arab was an emperor in troubled times. That is why nice coins are more commonly found for him than many others, when there is war you bury your treasure more often than in times of peace. As for "condition rarity", I am not so sure. You can ask Doug, but I have seen high grade examples of his a lot, as well as Gordian III and other emperors in this time frame. G&M had a lot of 3rd century emperors all XF/FDC that I was underbidder on a couple of years ago, they sold in the lot for about 18 euros a piece.

I would grade it gXF/VF, not FDC. I agree yours has not seen circulation, but ancients are graded on detail, not reason for lack of detail. Any ancient dealer that uses "soft strike" "worn dies" etc. as an excuse on his coins, I dismiss immediately. He can say that, but he must lower the grade because of the deficiency.

Very nice coin though, I am not disputing that, but I agree that it is a really excellent photo. What set up do you use to achieve these results?

I am really sorry if this post sounded harsh, just giving my perspective. If it helps, I grade my ancients and world coins the way US coins USED to be graded, meaning conservatively. I always add at least a grade level when I have to grade US coins.

 

I have to agree with medoraman that the coin that started this is gXF/VF, not FDC but it is still better than almost all of my coins of the period. The obverse die is of good style and well struck. The reverse die is lesser and shows some doubling or deterioration which is to be expected in this period. My personal preference here (a minority opinion) favors coins with wear and better strikes and/or style especially since the majority will pay more for the OP coin than they will for the kind I buy. With ancients, the numerical grading system 'MS64' is meaningless IMHO because there are just too many factors to consider that do not come to play with modern machine made coins.

I feel 18 euros is cheap for nice coins but there are a lot of these coins and many are decent looking by any standards. There are enough common Philips to allow being selective whether looking for price of grade. I certainly would love to have the OP coin mostly due to its nice obverse. For comparison I'll post a couple in lesser grade that I still like.

 

The 18 Euro prices was because it was a group lot of about 60 of them. A wholesale price for a dealer to acquire stock. It was cheap enough for really nice looking coins that I nearly bought them, so yes it was a good deal. To be fair a few were gVF but a couple were FDC, so it evened out.

Yes, style can be very important. That is why I really like the obverse of the OP's coin. Very nice style. I like coin number two a lot for the same reason, the style of the reverse that frequently gets overlooked on ancients.

 

I agree with all the posts. However, for the few Ancient coins worth grading, I have to agree with David Vagi's system at NGC-Ancients.

His grading system does take into account that an uncirculated coin can have a weak strike, thus, is graded differently.

For this coin specifically, I would give it an:
AU
strike 3/5
surface 4/5

Assessing ancients has to be different since most Ancient coins have been cleaned and strike must be taken into account.


g.


BTW: Doug's Saecvlaris is beautiful.

ChAU
strike: 4
surface 5

 

Weryon: I presume your avatar is the reverse of a Spintria. I like it.

g.

 

Indeed it is , first to point it out

 

So an ancient coin isn't worth grading if it is not considered mint state? Or do you mean slabbing?

I don't care for David Vagi's system. What we have works, describes the level of detail on the coin, and all ancient collectors know what to expect. I am guessing we cannot stop American collecting mindset from coming into the hobby. I will be like Doug and collect "lesser" coins with good style and historical significance, and let US collectors go after "condition census" and other nonsense.

 

Well put. I mean slabbed. As a non-coin collector, I can care less about the "grade" on a slab. For me, it's historical significance and eye appeal that are important.

That said, authentication is an issue. Unless one has some level of expertise or one is buying from a very reputable site, spending a huge amount of money on a non-authenticated coin from an unknown source if foolish. Of course, the coin doesn't have to be entombed in plastic. David Vagi at NGC-Ancients offers (for a fee) an authentication and attribution (but not a guanantee). I can respect that.

If I were to spend a more than a few hundred dollars on a coin from an unkown source, I want that coin authenticated. I'm not that good. Many people are, but I think that number is fewer than many people think. I am not an expert.

g.

 

Very fair point. I also would be leery of spending money like that outside a respect firm for a coin. There are a couple of series I am moderately capable of detecting any forgery, but not most. Btw, I believe David Sear offers the same attribution and verification service. Also, I personally like David Vagi, have met him a few times, and don't get too upset with slabs for new collectors. I just dislike any new type of grading in ancients. To me, what we have works, and it is much harder for people to try to make a big deal of "MS63" versus "MS64" and that crap, when other things are much more imprtant. To me, after style and history, how much detail is left is what matters. You can tell me why, but personally I don't care. Soft strike? VF. Wear? VF. Same thing.

Just my opinion.

 

Yes, great looking coin, fantastic portrait... and fine photography skills.... here's mine.... however I did not take the photos myself.

dougsmit: That's a great looking 'SPES FELICITATIS ORBIS' coin.... I haven't seen any that nice. I have the 'VIRTUS EXERCITUS' one, but in very low grade..... "Unknown Eastern mint" right?

 

Yes. Most people say 'Antioch' but unknown is probably more honest. There are three reverses in that set. The third is Pax Fundata cum Persis That is a nice Felicitas, too. I don't have that type.

 

Ah yes, I prefer the term 'Unknown Eastern Mint' personally....but that's just me. Of the three reverses I think the 'Pax Fundata cum Persis' is my favorite.... and I suppose it would also be the most popular, what with it mentioning Persia on the reverse.... especially the one with the first type obverse, with 'PM' below the bust. Several people have told me that the 'PM' on the obverse stands for 'Persicus Maximus', and they have explained their reasons, such as... 'PM' was a common Roman abbreviation, that the Romans would understand what it meant, but the Persians would not notice it if they saw one of these coin types, and therefore would not know or think that the Romans put such a phrase on their coins after the Persian war..... but that is just what people have told me.
I just saw a fairly nice example of the 'Pax Fundata cum Persis' reverse, with the second type obverse, the obverse like your 'Spes' and my 'Virtus' examples, sell on ebay for around USD85... seemed a bit low of a price to me.... but so it goes...
Here is my low quality Eastern Mint 'Virtus Exercitus'.

*and thank you very much for the compliment on my Rome mint 'Felicitas Temp' Philip Ant.