Which one and why? 1964 Jefferson Nickel

This thread will be a little different than your typical guess the grade thread. Since everyone loves the mantra of "buy the coin not the plastic", I thought it would be fun to employ grading skills in a real world situation that involves a financial decision. After all, before you can determine a price of a coin, you must first determine the grade.

Imagine that you have to choose between the following two coins for your Jefferson Nickel registry set. Each coin is graded by NGC but lets pretend that you don't know what the assigned grades are. For the purposes of this thread, we will assume that the coins are authentic and are not problem coins. We will also assume that you have $500 to spend but must choose only one of the two coins.

Coin #1



Coin #2



Now, which one would you choose and why? Please vote in the attached poll. If you feel so inclined, tell us your reasons for your choice. If you decide to opine, please tell us how you graded each coin, what price you were willing to pay for each coin, which one you would choose, and the factors that influenced your decision. Hopefully this exercise will prove more thought provoking and educational than a typical guess the grade.

 

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Man, you know how to pick them. I guess I like Monticello with a door.

 

Had the steps been full on coin #1, I may have picked that one, but without it, I'll take the eye appealing toned coin #2.

In my eye there is no question which I like better. The marks are less distracting on coin #1 but I still like #2 better

 

A good start but I want grades for each coin and how much you would spend on each coin along with your reasons for choosing one or the other.

 

I generally prefer coins at least 100 years old and struck in silver or gold. Coin #1 looks like something I might find in my pocket change on a lucky day. Still it does nothing for me.

Coin #2 features beautiful toning and has a certain mojo going for it. If I was in a coin shop and saw it I might buy it on a whim.

Grades? Oh dear. I'll give coin #1 a MS64 and coin #2 a MS66 even with the two dings on the obverse.

Values? No idea whatsoever.

 

What if you're an idiot and know anything about Jeffs?

Seriously, I don't know much about Jeffersons, but will add my $.05.

The strike on coin 2 seems to be much better and the toning just adds to the coin. I don't like the mark on his chin or cheek, or on the door, but I'd get over it and I think it is the more appealing coin.

Coin 1 doesn't have the "wow" factor that coin 2 has, so I'd pass. It also looks to me like the reverse is very weakly struck.

I'm going to pass on what I'd spend, because of the above mentioned factors.

Coin 1 MS66
Coin 3 MS64

 

Id pay 4-5x for coin 2. :hail:

Coin 2 MS-65*

 

You want grades?
#1 I give it a 66. NGC probably 67
#2 I would say SMS65

 

I would buy number 2 but that only beacause of its tone. and if it was ungraded. Coin one IMO prolly grades higher but doesnt appeal to me. Coin #2 has nice color but deeper nicks and a distracting scratch above the door on the reverse

 

But how much would you pay for each?

 

#1 the hair line's around the obverse lettering seem to distracting and it seems not to be a strong strike but still I would think it would be around ms-65.
#2 the toning is very eye catching and the fields look to be clean and you can see the level of detail is stronger/ ms-67. However, I find that toning can cover up some marks by distracting your eyes especially with that nick on his chin on coin 2.

 

I personally wouldn't buy either coin, both coins do bother me to some extent.
In this little situation, I would go with coin number one.

Here is my evaluation of each coin.

Coin 1:
I graded at MS65 (also think NGC did as well) there really are minimal marks, there is one distracting mark that I can see, I posted a photo and circled it.



Granted this mark isn't huge, it is the one mark on the coin that is the most distracting, but it isn't the only thing holding the coin back from MS66 or higher. There are other marks, on Jefferson's face, and on Monticello, and the door and areas to the left and right are very well worn down. The steps are nearly complete, but there are two small areas that make that not possible. Once again I've circled the problem areas in red.



The coin overall is quite nice, I would not buy this coin though, but, the coin is better in my opinion than the other coin.

Coin 2:

MS66 STAR for NGC's grade.
My grade is MS65 no star.
First off, this coin has absolutely lovely toning, and from the images looks like a proof coin. I'm going to assume it is mint state though, because this wouldn't be all that fair to have a proof versus a mint state coin the way this thread is set up.
So we've established toning. Hooray. And NGC, without a doubt gave this coin a Star, that line of magenta, and bright orange, baby blue, and the yellow-green, definitely made the graders at NGC see stars, so they decided to put the stars they saw on the holder.
The coin has a series of very distracting marks, that just can't be made up for, making me resistant to buy this coin, and even give it second though.
I've circled the problem areas in my mind, that should limit the coin from getting what I suspect to be NGC's grade.



As you can see the steps are just as bad as the first coin and that hit near the door, is more like a scratch, and is very very distracting. The gouge on the bottom of Jefferson's cheekbone is bugging the heck out of me, along with the small gouge under his eye. I just can't say that I like the coin with all that being said.

So once again, I'd choose coin number 1.

As for what I'd pay...

Coin 1: $20
Coin 2: Maybe around $80-$100 if I actually wanted the coin and agreed with what I think is NGC's grade of MS66 star. Without agreeing with the grade of what I think NGC gave it, I'm going to say I'd pay $60 just for a toning premium.

 

Travis,

That is a great post and exactly what I was looking for. I only have one question for ya. You stated that the NGC grade is MS66* but you would not give the coin a star designation. Why not?

 

The star designation is given to coins with superb eye appeal. While this coin does have beautiful toning, the marks I pointed out are just too distracting, and the dark toning to the far right of the obverse just make the coin stand out in the ugly category.
Sure it is a beautiful coin, but if I was an NGC grader, I'd let the other guys call it a star, and not me, I'd rather be tough on a coin like this, then just throw out a star because there is a small line of pretty toning with several different colors that you do in fact see often.

Thanks for pointing that out by the way, I thought I left out something in my explanation.

 

Not the reason I was expecting, but okay.

 

I don't like the reverses on either coin.
but coin 1 looks like something I could pluck out of pocket change, while coin 2 has some nice toning to it. So I'd pick coin 2.

 

Interesting thread Lehigh. I would personally not choose either one of them to buy,

Coin #1 I would grade AU58. There is a lot going on on Jefferson's cheek, and the reverse also shows signs of wear, which I believe is coupled with a weak strike making it look even worse. I agree with the issues Tmoney pointed out but I also want to add the scratch at Jefferson's top lip (I don't know how to do the edit thing to point it out).

For the toner, well, I'm not a big fan of toning so I would pass because of that. However, for the sake of argument I will say, I would also pass due to the nasty hits on Jefferson's cheek and the steps, and what appears to be a scratch on the main portico. I would grade it MS 60.

Really, though, I would never spend money on a coin I get two examples of at least every time I search a roll; and I have found an example of the 1964 that is in my opinion superior to both examples you post (No offence!) in that it doesn't have any hits, no seeming scratches and looks nearly exactly like it did when it was first minted...has a strong strike...except it does not have full steps. Overall that doesn't bother me, as the rest of the coin is simply spectacular, in my opinion. I don't really worry about stuff I can barely see without a magnifying glass

I found it in a roll. Were I into the grading game, I would expect it to go 64 or perhaps even 65. It's the nicest nickel of the first generation Jefferson in my collection, without a doubt, better even than the uncirculated war nickel I purchased.

 

I agree with Bill, I would buy neither. I agree with T$ on coin 2 and coin 1 also seems weak on the reverse and some die wear on the obverse that would be more apparent (I think) if the coin was observed with a loupe. Coin 2 has a really nice strike, too bad about the hits.

 

I really do not think the what I would pay for coins would be germane to this discussion. I mean those are funny looking Abes to me.