PNG says "NO" to coin doctoring!!

I remember back when I first started posting on this forum and there was one person who posted on here who artificially toned coins and didn't see anything wrong with it. He's long gone as most true coin collectors do see something wrong with it and stay away from obvious coin doctoring and my guess is (this forum) got lonely for him. Anyways, finally the PNG has some words on the subject. Add comments, if you feel like! Part of what the PNG said was; "unconscionable practice of "doctoring" is an enormous detriment to the numismatic marketplace"... Oh and I even included part of the embarrassing for PNG. Anyone?


http://www.coinnews.net/2010/06/03/...et's+Numismatic+News)&utm_content=Yahoo!+Mail


(Long Beach, California) — The Board of Directors of the Professional Numismatists Guild (PNG) met in Long Beach, California on June 2, 2010 and issued the following statement.

The Professional Numismatists Guild Board of Directors applauds the Professional Coin Grading Service (PCGS) in its efforts to battle the deceptive practice known as coin "doctoring." The deliberate, deceitful alteration of a coin can pose an egregious financial consequence to individual collectors, investors, dealers as well as the general public. PNG believes the unconscionable practice of "doctoring" is an enormous detriment to the numismatic marketplace.

edited - copyright

 

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Well you figure they would have to come out with a statement condeming coin doctors once PCGS named the defendents in their suit and three of them were PNG members.

 

Does anybody know the identity of the defendants?

 

From the PCGS website

I'm sure especially embarrassing is Silvano DiGenova because he was one of the co-founders of PCGS.

They also say they may name up to ten more defendents.

 

The 'WINDOW" is open as to when the finger pointing starts, I think it's been amended to include at least 25 more defendants!

Those named are just the tip of the so-called iceberg.

 

I wonder what Laura (Legend) has to say about the PNG's statement given her past criticism of the PNG.

 

Notice nothing is mentioned about Artificial toning. And before anyone says it falls under the "altered" part , so would "dipping", and that will never be inforced!

So exactly where does PNG or PCGS condemn AT (and Dipping)?

None of the complaints involves anything besides physical alterations of coins.

 

Who cares what Laura at Legend has to say or think. Her self-promoting comments are always for attention which qualifies her as a marketing edited . And in the end she has to pull her article off the Legend website... She should see a coin doctor or the like.... :thumb:

 

Are you saying you don't find her entertaining? I do!

 

The PNG statement was well written. But talk is cheap, and my feeling is that if they really cared about coin doctoring, they would have acted upon it long ago.

 

Wonder no more...

http://www.legendcoin.com/cgi-bin/inventory/cms2.pl?page=hot_topics

I agree with Laura... the PNG statement of saying "NO" to coin doctoring is pretty much meaningless if they don't have the guts to take any action. The accused should at least be on probation or temporary suspension pending the outcome given the seriousness of the allegations.

 

I knew she was going to comment in a very entertaining fashion.

 

I am having a hard time with this. Isn't cleaning, de-oxidizing, restoring, etc all a form of doctoring as is "thumbing" proofs ? Are they condemning all doctoring or just that done by certain people ? Is this all somehow profit motivated. I mean, "we restore", "you doctor" sort of thing ?

As a junk collector, how does this affect the bottom end ?

 

When I first saw toning I thought it looked good. Then I wondered how do they do that,
at least the exotic ones. I know it can't be stopped, But disclosure should be expected. I like the looks, but still consider it an imperfection. And if natural I can see a market. But if people are using chemicals what will it look like in 5,10,20 or50 years?

 

Isn't the natural toning a result of a chemical process ? I mean paper can affect how the coin tarnishes, etc. Of course there will always be counterfeiters and people doing things to inhance the value of their merchandise. Grandpa told me when I started this in Scouting 50 years ago "Most people are honest, then there are those who would sell you a coin".

 

Exactly! These guys are the elite professionals using high-end doctoring techniques. They are out to make thousands of dollars with the methods. It's refreshing to see PCGS go after these guys! I hope they tear them a new edited.

 

I heard having a coin under Hot bulbs will tone coins don't know how true it is,I have a lot of toned coins,hope they have not ben doctored.Lordy

 

If they are above beginner Doctors level in skill and technique, using the correct chemicals, the AT will look the same as a NT of similar toning stage in that time. The difference will be the environment and storage, not how the initial toning was produced. It can be the very same chemical reaction.

The PCGS has publicly disclosed that very sophisticated means, beyond the average collector usage ( I have lasers, etc., but I don't have the alignment and precision controllers needed to alter the surface of a coin). Likewise I am sure if we could be the fly on the wall of a high class AT operation, we would see methods and devices far more sophisticated than most could imagine. It is not just a few people sitting around, dunking coins in sulfides. Eventually the large percentage of collectors that say they can tell AT from NT will realize that almost none can. Yes, this will affect the toned coin market, just as this PCGS action will affect the high end market. I think Toning will eventually have to be either "Market acceptable" or "Market unacceptable" to be realistic.

Maybe if PCGS didn't have to pay out the millions to repurchase the altered coins, it would still be a "trade secret". JMO.

Jim

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