How concerned should we be about counterfeits?

My 10 year old and I just picked up coin collecting as a joint hobby. :smile When I was a kid I collected coins with my grandfather and I remember how rewarding it was. Plus, I'm a collector by nature. :thumb:

We have been working on nickels and quarters, but recently picked up a 7070 type set book. I've read the cracker's remorse thread and agree that it is probably best to go with un-slabbed coins. I've also read enough to be very concerned that the Chinese have made an art of counterfeiting even common coins. Our source for coins will be the local coin club, ebay and the annual coin show. Apparently coin shops, at least locally, do not exist anymore.

How concerned should we be about counterfeits? :kewl:

Thanks.

 

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Welcome to CT... and a one word answer to your question is very. Here's one of many links to CT threads covering this problem:

http://www.cointalk.com/t46943/

 

I wouldn't recommend buying raw, unless you can educate yourself to a point where you can tell the real deal from a counterfeit.
Most coin series you don't really have to worry about a whole lot, and you'll be able to buy them raw, but things like Trade Dollars, you need to be very very concerned, and only buy slabbed. Also grading is very key is well, with all of this in mind, do what Doug said, lets stick to PCGS and NGC coins for now.

Also, hopefully your son enjoys this hobby for years to come!
Happy Collecting to you and your son, and don't be afraid to ask a question, we're always here to help.

 

Welcome to the neighborhood, usc96!

Just because you have a Dansco 7070, doesn't mean that you must buy uncertified coins to fill it. If you buy certified coins for this set, it also isn't necessary for you to crack them out to fill the holes. I have many collecting friends who buy the certified coins and simply put a small photo or note in the appropriate hole to indicate that the coin has been acquired. By doing this, you don't have too much risk of buying counterfeit coins, and you also don't lose the added value associated with the slab.

Chris

 

for a type set,I wouldnt be concerned,there are only really a few coins that are counterfeited more often.the trade dollar,and the seated dollar.mostly everything else in that set,is pretty common to fill.other than the early cents being more expensive.Dont let fear control your fun with your kid.good luck

 

Agreed... most of the coins in the 7070 are available from any reliable dealer unslabbed. As Mad said, exercise care with trade dollars and seated dollars... I'll add bust halves, large cents and half cents, as these are also heavily counterfeited. I filled my 7070 (with the exception of a few slots) with six trips to the local coin shop, spaced out over a period of six months. Good luck!

 

Thanks for all of the great replies. I sure do wish there was a local coin shop in the area. We've attended the local coin club meetings twice and will likely join soon. They end their meetings with a small auction, which could help us plug a few of those spaces.

 

welcome to the neighborhood, usc. The primary place where I would be concerned about counterfeits is on eBay. There are plenty out there, so be careful, but as many have said if you deal with someone known and reputable, you can buy with confidence.

As with any collecting, knowledge is going to save mistakes. Study what you can about a particular type before purchasing one.

Many people collect by type and in type sets. I am guilty as charged. The most common regret that I hear is that people eventually have to upgrade their coins for their sets. The reason for the regret is generally that they lose money as they try to sell the lower graded coin to offset the price of the higher graded coin. Typically had they been a bit more patient to buy (which usually means that they would have had more money to spend on the coin) and more selective in which coin they eventually bought, that they could have built their type set for substantially less.

I hope that made sense.

Either way, welcome to you and your son!

 

Counterfeits are a growing concern. There have been reports of low cost coins such as Ike's, and foreign minors being counterfeited. There have been reports of fakes of just about every 19th century type coin, though there are more reports about fake dollars (Bust, Seated, Trade, Morgan, Peace) than anything else.

The fakes have been reported in many channels--not just Ebay. If the local club guys aren't experts, they might be buying them and passing them without knowing.

I'd guess that less than 20% of collectors are qualified to authenticate coins against medium quality fakes. Less than 0.5% against high quality fakes. Yes, there are crudely made "tourist shop" fakes that wouldn't fool any collector that is paying attention. However, especially for expensive coins, there are also some high quality fakes that would fool a lot of people. There are also a growing number of fake slabs, sometimes with a fake coin, sometimes with a real coin in at a higher grade, or even sliced up halves of real coins put into fake or glued together slabs.

About two years ago, a major coin magazine walked some of the better fakes around at a big show. Over half the dealers the coins were offered to, were willing to buy the fakes. That kind of story is very scary to me, because these fakes fooled a bunch of full time dealers. That story was about two years ago. The current level of fakes is likely even better.

So be careful, be mindful. For the expensive coins I would still favor slabbed from a reputable dealer. I wouldn't buy the expensive coins from unknown parties even if certified, because fake slabs are becoming more and more common.

 

That makes good sense Mike. I think we will hold off on the big dollar coins until we get a better feel for the market. There is a coin show in August, so that might be a good place to look for some of the pricier coins.

What we've been doing so far is putting the coins we already have (from when I was a child, and various ones I've picked up over the years like the gold coins) in the 7070, and then buying proof and BU versions of contemporary coins on ebay or the coin club auction. For example, we picked up a proof bicentennial set with certificate of authenticity from the Mint for $17 on ebay and filled 3 spots.

Luckily we could fill three of the large cent spaces with coins my dad found on some land he owned before he passed away. I bought him a metal detector and he found 50 - 100 coins (mostly large cents) from the 1800s in the ground under what was once the city's bus station. They are not the prettiest specimens, but from looking on ebay, it appears condition is relative in the large cent series.

 

Here's a trade dollar auction on ebay... something looks kinda fishy about the pictures of the coin esp. the back where it says 420 grains .900 pure. I didn't know trade dollars said that.

http://cgi.ebay.com/1878-S-TRADE-DO...em&pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item3a5b5635c7

 

Through my own research, modern coins are generally not counterfeited to the extent that older coins, such as Morgan Dollars, Trades, Peace Dollars, Shield Nickels, Standing Liberty quarters, etc.

If you buy from reputable dealers, or coin shops you should have nothing to worry about. Purchasing from the Mint directly is a good idea.

 

According to my Red Book, they do say 420 grains 900 fine.

Here is the type of eBay listing that looks too good to be true, so I avoid it.

http://cgi.ebay.com/1904-P-Barber-H..._Individual&hash=item4aa1879e7f#ht_590wt_1139

 

(pure) Fine...check you Red Book. Nothing fishy there.......

 

As to my other link, until I started back up I always thought lady liberty on the Barber coins was a dude.

 

yep, saw it after I posted. I always refer to my redbook but I was being lazy when I came across that auction I posted. I actually thought the scuffs looked stranger than anything, like they were criss crossed.

 

I ain't touchin' that line......:smile

 

Lot o' wear on that coin but who knows? Risky........

 

I can tell you if that Barber half was really MS-67, it would have been listed as a BIN and not auction, and listed for $1000. NGSC is a basement grader and the coins they self-slab, are seriously over graded.