Would you report this as counterfeit ?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Bust-Dollar-180...&pt=US_Men_s_Belt_Buckles&hash=item335d847c9c

I was looking at multiple belt buckles containing old US Coins and ran across lots of them from this seller. They show the OBV & REV and they look identical to original US coins but there were no "copy" nor "replica" marks stamped on them anywhere. The seller says in the detailed description not to buy them as collectible because they have not been authenticated , but that seems sort of flimsy since a person clearly would not sell a $13,000.00 coin for $135.00 if they thought it was authentic. That being the case , one would realize that they are probably selling replica coins that do not contain the required "copy" stamp.
Seems like they are trying to skate around the counterfeiting laws.

 

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Borderline... IMO. In the description, the seller goes on to say that the dollar hasn't been authenticated. Though some sellers might hope that some people don't read the fine print.

 

Being sold as a belt bckle, not a coin. It's even LISTED under belt-buckles. I see no reason to report it.

 

I agree to not report that one.

 

This is the extract of the U.S. Code that pertains to counterfeit coins. The key words are, Whoever fraudulently, which means that the seller would have to have intent to deceive potential buyers.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00000331----000-.html

I don't see that this seller has done anything wrong.

Chris

 

I don't like it and think they should be reported. I don't care if they're listed in ladies undergarments, the fact is that they're replica coins without the "copy" stamp means they are illegal. If the coins weren't easily removable it might not be as much of an issue but what if the person that buys this belt buckle turns around and sells just the coin. I think we would all have an issue with that.

By the way Chris , I believe the law you cited doesn't apply here. It is the Hobby Protection Act that covers replica coins.

 

i guess it could go either way. someone may think they are getting a deal, because the seller thinks its just some belt buckle and they snag it up and resell it not knowing...

or

someone sees a good opportunity to take advantage of a replica that does not have the copy stamp on it and wants to make some quick money.

but

you can't really blame the seller, he does go on about the coin not being genuine and is not selling it as a genuine coin.

its a tough call.

 

I would note that the COIN is illegal due to the Hobby protection act and therefore selling an illegal item, whether knowingly or not, should be sufficient to have EBay remove it. Claims that he is uncertain about it's authenticity IS fraudulent in my opinion.

 

The HPA is a regulation, not a law. Any penalities would fall under existing statues.

304.4 Application of other law or regulation.
The provisions of these regulations are in addition to, and not in substitution for or limitation of, the provisions of any other law or regulation of the United States (including the existing statutes and regulations prohibiting the reproduction of genuine currency) or of the law or regulation of any State.

This auction is a tough call for eBay. It would be interesting to note their response if someone did, in fact, report it.

 

Actually, both laws apply because the HPA specifically states that it is not intended to replace any other existing laws of the United States Code.

However, there are key words in the HPA that make it inapplicable to this case much in the same way that the USC is inapplicable. The HPA specifically states that it is illegal to manufacture or import numismatic items that are not properly marked with the word COPY.

Since there is no evidence to suggest that the seller manufactured the coin or imported the coin, he/she has done nothing illegal.

Chris

 

I dunno, it's a little shadebomb. I won't report it, given that, as others have pointed out, it's being sold as a belt buckle and no authenticity claims are made or implied. And as others have pointed out, the law may very well still apply, but... I dunno, I mean, it's a belt buckle.

If some buyer were to take it out and resell it as genuine, then I'd only take issue with that buyer, not this seller. So I'm having a hard time justifying giving this seller trouble.

But look at his other auctions -- he's got the same price on all of them regardless of the coin. I think even the seller is thinking of them simply as belt buckles, not trying to present them as a backdoor way to sell sketchy coins. And he has very high feedback, suggesting his customers don't think they're being conned.

 

I'm by no means a lawyer so you may be right about that. All I know is when I report them they get removed. I reported it , we'll see what happens.

 

I don't know that he's totally innocent here either. In one pic he's showing the edge lettering on the coin so I'm thinking he does know something about coins.

 

Yeah... that's the part that bothers me. Why would someone buying a belt bucket even care about edge lettering? I believe he's showing the edge to imply autheniticity.

 

The seller knows the coin is not real and thats why he put the
Words not authenticated in his discription, but still a cool item

 

I think it needs to be reported.there is no reason that should be a $100+ dollar belt buckle.its a scandalous way of someone offering fake coins,without copy on them,so some buyers can buy them and age them,and sell them for big bucks as originals.

Report away!!!

 

Skating on thin ice carrying an anvil

 

Yes sell is walk on thin ice:hammer:,but he:hatch: said the coin can not be authenticated & the belt buckle is what for sale.

 

Why limit yourselves to the one buckle? You need to include his other 28 buckles!

 

So I guess I could sell,a .....Gold Necklace, with a .....crack rock vial included,and ....since ...the ...crack cocaine... could... not... be "authenticated" then it would be OK....,because Im really only selling the gold necklace....is that what your saying,its OK to sell this way???:kewl: