Question about treasure find

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Indeed!

 

Mel Fisher had an agreement with Florida, negotiated ahead of time, to give them 25% of the treasure. Then when he actually found it the State of Florida stepped in and claimed 100% of it.

One of the main problems with the "Black Swan" matter is that the ship was a Spanish Naval vessel. EVERY country claims ownership rights to their sunken naval vessels and private salvage, especially unlicensed salvage, is illegal. Also I belive Odyssey did not have a salvage license. They did have a license to search for a different ship but not to salvage it. Instead they found this one and salvaged it secretly.

Considering what they did, no Spain does NOT have to reimburse them for the salvage. (If someone breaks into your house and in the process tears his pants, you do not have to buy him a new pair.)

As for dumping the treasure back into the sea, as long as they did it in Spain's territorial waters I would see that as having returned the treasure to Spain.

 

If you lived in NY State you'd know the answer to that question.....:smile

 

If that's the way that Spain wants to play it, I say dump it back! And do it piece-by-piece from the back of a high-speed cigarette boat on full throttle...

Let's see how Spain likes them apples!

 

Man, the more controversial this becomes, the easier it might be to get investors and the stock should go up a bit. This is a lot of publicity for the treasure hunters, and eventually, they will get something from the find. IMHO

 

Seems to me if you lose crap for hundreds of years, that finders keepers -- but what do I know.

 

"lose" and "crap" are rather subjective in that statement...

The US can't currently go back to the moon on a moments notice (especially with the Shuttle program and manned flight programs ending) but if some other nation goes to the moon and decides to remove the US flag put there as some crap left there for a space of time, I bet there'd be some outcry over it. Spain for hundreds of years couldn't go to the bottom of the sea and retrieve that wreck any more than indigenous people could win a claim of all their precious metals and cultural artifacts stolen hundreds of years ago from Spain either (amongst other marauding nations).

 

I see your point, and at the end of the day, in spite of my joshing, I do believe that if such wrecks fall under territorial state sovereignty, objects therein remain the property of said state; unless said state negotiates agreements with salvaging parties. That said, I don't think one can compare a flag on the moon with one of many sunken ships.

On a friendly side note, it's specifically prohibited for another nation to go to the moon and remove the U.S. flag (or any other items placed by the U.S.), pursuant to Article VIII of the UN Treaty: Treaty on Principles Governing the Activities of States in the Exploration and Use of Outer Space, including the Moon and Other Celestial Bodies. More specifically:

"Ownership of objects launched into outer space, including objects landed or constructed on a celestial body, and of their component parts, is not affected by their presence in outer space or on a celestial body or by their return to the Earth."
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At the end of the day, it's not going to be that cut and dry because the claims to the property are disputed from various nations and ultimately from displaced peoples.

Regarding the Peaceful Uses of Space law you cited... like any body of rules, they can be written and even agreed upon but if the US cannot physically defend the objects put in space, what's to stop another nation later on doing as they please. At that later point in time a new or reconstituted nation may already have the power to do as they please without contest for a few hundred years, ignoring the pacts or other previous nations' declarations. I don't want to get way off topic in some other hypothetical, currently unlikely, scenario filled with what if situations, but it's not the case that laws once in place when Spain lost the wreck are still the same by definition today any more than Spain possesses the authority and might to enforce them in the manner they once did, never forgetting the dispute over stolen resources and cultural theft that the indigenous peoples have raised against Spain and by extension with Odyssey for further complicity and possession of removed cultural property.

Repatriation of the property to the original peoples seems unlikely anytime now or in the future, but it doesn't clear the path for stronger, standing nations making the rules to discount their past actions and make modern concessions for their own benefit or profit. It's a double standard in an era when repatriation of art, property and cultural artifacts are contested and being repatriated for losses that occurred from a people forcefully displaced by a more powerful nation, such as happened to persecuted peoples in the second world war due to the actions of Germany nor are vast amounts of cultural objects held in foreign museums that were once bought or removed off the Acropolis legitimately being held rather than returned to Greece following their claims to the property clearly theirs.

 

Alright, hypothetical question. I encounter, while sailing on the high seas, a boat (ship, sloop, merchant vessel) which has been for one reason or another, abandoned. I put a crew on board said boat and assist the vessel back to port. Is the boat and its' contents mine to keep?

PS: there's a very valuable coin collection on board.......

 

Not necessairily. I believe you can file a claim against the boat for towing, etc. But since nearly every vessel today is registered, there is a record of ownership. Kind of like having an abandoned car on a vacant lot. You have to file a storage lien against it first, then maybe the court will award you title, but it isn't an automatic thing.

Of course the coin collection on board is not your property, but belongs to the owner of the boat. That too is subject to disposition by a governing body. So, if you take it, don't tell anyone where you got it.

 

CheetahCats, Where did you get the picture of the kid who appears to be the product of the Devil's spawn?

 

No, I won't say it......:smile

 

I apologize if it's the unPhoto Shopped picture of somebody's kid.

 

Points taken. And indeed, it's a hairy situation.

 

I wasn't aware of the exact percentage, but this is exactly how I had read it to be. I know it's only TV, but I also believe there was a show on Discovery or Nat Geo which documented the day in the life of salvagers...

Perhaps what makes this complicated is that it's a combination of sovereignty, international salvaging rights [law], and the wreck is a [now defunct] naval vessel...?

 

" . . .and the wreck is a [now defunct] naval vessel...?

The way I understand it If it's a Spanish naval vessel then OMEX claim is dead in the water.