how to naturally tone coins long term?

Thank you for that info Cringely.

was there every coin rolls for silver dollars? not tubes but paper rolls.

 

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I have heard of folks using a blowtorch to tone coins.

No joke, I am serious.

Who knows, with enough heat, it may be possible to turn a cent into a penny!

 

anybody else have some more intelligent answers or info for me.

 

A priori, air circulation should speed things up: more reactants going by, more chances to react.

Doug, can you say more? It makes perfect sense that luster (caused by surface texture) would be a precondition for toning (surface chemistry). But what about that silver bar in the video of electric artificial toning? Aren't bars poured? Or are they stamped, leaving the same microscopic texture of flow lines that coins have?

 

thanks for that info, maybe while my wifes home during the day ill keep the safe open.

 

If you are referring to rainbow or brightly colored toning, yes, as those colors are produced by thin layer diffraction due to ( here is Doug's designation) ^^^^^^^ the flow lines peaks ( that are referred to as the cartwheel effect) The chemical reactions tend to be of a monocolor deposit, and on a worn coin where the flow lines are worn flat, will be grey to black depending on thickness. Without the "peaks", to diffract the light into rainbow colors, that is what you will get. Also wear tends to remove the tarnish/toning and to find AU or EF coins brightly colored is wrong, except in areas of the coin where the flow lines were well protected.

Here is the best link I know about thin layer diffraction and rainbow type toning. Also read the thread links in the first posting.
http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=716279

I have this link bookmarked myself, sorry it is on a different forum.The color chart in the first posting is based on material in the other threads, and is worth printing out as so many use the wrong color sequence.


Jim
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I've read that when (over)dipped coins re-tone they tend to be ugly. This is the reason, that the surface texture has been destroyed or damaged by the dipping?

 

think of the surface of most MS coins as grass on a golf field.perfect tiny little rows.Now think of coin dip as sand.when a coin is over dipped,the acids from the dip bonds to the surface.like taking sand and filling in the gaps in the grass on the field.so if you poor sand on golf grass,and smear it with your foot.you get ugly grass & sand mix.now imagine golf grass,perfect as can be,then you see little pretty flowers blooming just slightly at the same height.awww thats pretty.or at least better than sand....right?

 

As mentioned before, use the sulfur exceedingly sparingly. I would advise you not to put the sulfur powder into direct contact with the coins. This would cause spotting and unwanted hues/patterns. Seems like the best way would be to place the coin(s) into an album that's been 'boosted' with sulfur powder. However you decide to experiment, just remember that too much sulfur will give you a flat black coin.

Oh, and perform this outside or in a very well ventilated area - it's going to smell horrible

 

Anything more than placing a piece of paper in a cigar box with coins should be a misdemeanor.
jmho

 

Anybody who is thinking about trying to artificially tone a coin should read Weimar White's Coin Chemistry. There are multiple short chapters on the effects of sulphur.

 

what is it about a cigar box that helps? is it the lining they use or the presence of the cigars and the sulfer that comes from them or what or the humidor to provide moister? TEACH ME OH WISE ONES....

 

:bow:

 

Aren't there/weren't there albums that were known to react with coins placed in them?

 

Wyatte Raymonds "the old ones" Library of coins again the older ones but it still takes a long time to get a naturally toned coin.

 

yeah i had heard about that too. also i know if you place it on an electric stove burn you can watch it change from a gold color to a blue, any further and it goes black, you can try that on clad as well.

 

I always find these threads interesting as to the use of natural and artificial. I do agree with Doug's assertion that intent is the difference between them. Time is not, as what may tone untouched in your area may take 10 years more than in someone else's area. The chemical reactions ( given the same chemicals, either artificially or naturally) will have the same end point on the same coin. Color or location of toning~ yes here is where either bad luck or bad doctoring can give a seemingly market unacceptability appearance, but if done well, no one can tell, no one except the originator of course. Toning not apropos to the wear level of the coin is also another indicator, but if you can't tell grading wear, you can't determine this either. I continually expect a pro toning apparatus to appear for sell ( if not already in the black market), incorporating computerized gas flow sequencing to react the coin and a photosensor to determine the end points. Reactive and inert flushing gases could be diffused into cardboard/paper fiber liners to give the "old album", kraft paper envelope, or Bag toned, upon a quick change. The chemistry is known. and if the operator or gang of operators were well versed in what natural toning looked like ( takes experience), they could crank out acceptable coins. Even if 1/3 got TPGed, it would be a profitable business, as the others could be dipped and recycled a few times.

I also keep reading the theoretical journals hoping to see if someone has determined a scientific way to determine excellent AT, and nothing on the horizon. Terms like "Floats on the surface", etc. have no differential scientific value IMO.

So to me, putting a coin in acidic sulfurous cardboard holders, albums , envelopes, taco napkins, or from hydrogen sulfide gas directly is the same if the intent is to produce toning, whether it takes 1 day or 10 years, what is the difference really?


IMO of course.

 

Here is my opinion!

The title of this thread should be "how to artificially tone coins long term". If the intent is to tone the coins, the result is not natural. Furthermore, the cavalier nature of this discussion is equally as disturbing as the content. Keep in mind that I have a very liberal opinion of artificial toning. Most hard core toning enthusiasts would find this thread very offensive and would be attacking the medical students

There is a reason why this is a taboo subject. AT methods in the wrong hands can kill the toned coin market. Out of respect for the collectors who have thousands of dollars committed in rainbow toned coins, I advise the medical students to refrain from discussing both AT methods and results.

In addition, I see only two reasons for having this discussion in the first place. First, the collector wants to create toned coins without having to pay the current premiums associated with obtaining those coins. If successful, the AT creations will slowly degrade the values of toned coins due to decreased rarity. The second reason would be to profit from the sale of such coins. While many of you may think that reason number one is more benign, both reasons have the potential to kill the toned coin market.

On a different topic, Doug is correct that mint state coins will tone better than circulated coins but that does not mean that you will not find toning, including rainbow toning on circulated coins. You absolutely will.



I kept my mouth shut for as long as I could in this thread. I will remain silent no longer.

 

if youll please refer back to my OP and some of my replies that follow soon after, my reason to learn will hopefully become clear. i do agree that this thread has leaned more in the direction of A/T which is interesting to me from a scientific stand point but is not the path i want to go. by the way, thanks for posting the merc visuals are always help for me and dont hold back on posting, i value your experience and input as well and as long as you dont argue about pennies and cents.