It's that old adage "There's 3 sides to every story. Yours, mine and the truth. Well in a business transaction I can see where both just want top dollar, that's it. All the time people get on here and complain about the dealers making a buck. But it's their jobs to do so. If you don't like it walk away like either can do in both of these situations.
I think it's human nature, a protection mechanism from our developmental years. We all probably remember a time in our chilhood when someone tried to pull one over on us or trade something of less value. Realizing a dealer has to make a living and a collector doesn't, keeps it in perspective.
People overuse the term ripoff, they overuse lots of terms, I know this because I am like most people and I find myself overusing terms also. I like br549's answer if you are selling to a dealer, use a pcgs dealer if every other dealer is telling you that your pcgs-65 is more like a 62. I did not know that pcgs dealers are pledged to respect the grades given by the service. The whole thread reminds me of a comedy bit I heard once, where the comedian was talking about drivers they do not like, one was the driver who pokes along in the fast line matching the slower cars on the right, the other was drivers who are in a hurry, the comedian tells that his method of dealing with the slower drivers was to get right on their tail, to try to weave ahead of them, his method of dealing with the drivers in hurry was to get in the fast lane, match the speed of the slower cars in the right lane and just ignore their tailgating. Before they had the positive golden rule, do unto others what you would have them do unto you, they expressed it in a more negative sense, " do not do, what you yourself hate"
I don't feel like I am being ripped off when a dealer offers me wholesale for a coin, and expects me to pay retail when I buy a coin. My experience has been that there is enough room within grade when I am buying a slabbed coin, that there is no need to fuss about a coin being overgraded... If I feel the coin was overgraded, why do I want it anyway, when I may just have to cross-grade it anyway? And more importantly, on the sell side, if I am selling a slabbed coin, why would I go to a dealer? Precisely because it is a slabbed coin, and at best a dealer is going to offer me something close to wholesale, why wouldn't I go to even some small effort to get a retail price for it? I mean even a yard sale is better than giving it away to a dealer... No offense, dealers....
OK - in both scenarios the buyer is the one who is rejecting the coins because they think the coins are over-graded. But when you the collector do it, you buy the coin not the slab, you're just being smart. When the dealer does the exact same thing - he's trying to rip you off. Why is that ? Why is it right for you to buy the coin and not the slab and wrong for the dealer to do the same thing ? Why are you making a smart move when you do it, but a dealer is trying to rip you off when he does it ? OK - let's hear your answers =============================================== In your example, I see the dealer not trying to rip off the customer but likely trying to make a profit. This is a business of course, and the dealer will need to figure out how much he/she can eventually sell the coin for and still make a profit on it. If the dealer buys a 64 for 64 money, then sells it for 64 money that business will not last very long under this practice. TC
Dealers have OVERHEAD,rent ,electricity,water,wages and so on in order to have a place to Deal from.They buy coins at wholesale or book prices and sell at retail book prices.When dealers buy,they have to hold on to that merchandise until a buyer comes wanting that particular coin.Their money is spent and they still have to pay for their overhead.The only time you can get higher prices from a dealer is when the coin(s) are in high demand or on a want list.This doesn't excuse dealers from ripoffs,but really,who doesn't want more for less.Buyer Beware! Sellers have the responsibility to know what they have and its value,know what they want from it and realize the markdown they get from dealers because of their necessity to make a profit.It is still more profitable to sell a coin to a collector privately or through auction(set a minimum reserve price) then it is to a dealer.A dealer is a convenience when you need to sell quick and will do leg work to get you the coin you want. Find a dealer that you can talk to and browse his wares,check out others and then pick the one that you find has the best attitude,merchandise and prices you can live with.
It may just be me, but I don't like to buy coins that I perceive as overgraded. Coffin coins, even if I were to get them at a bargain, are going to annoy me. And I would sell the dealer the 65 and keep the others.
Doug - I see different motives in the two scenarios that perhaps you've not considered. The collector is seeking a coin for his collection and wants his coin to be attractive to him and properly graded (if he is experienced to know). The dealer is trying to "buy right" so that he can build in at least a minimum profit margin. Call me cynical, but it is easy for some dealers to use the overgraded excuse to justify his lower bid and by doing so believes that the collector seller might swallow that better as opposed to a potential insulting lowball offer.
Look, it's not that I haven't considered anything. I know there are a hundred possible differences. The point is you are supposed to accept the hypothetical scenarios as being factual and forget all the possible different reasons. That's the entire point of hypothetical situations. It's like this, dealers are bashed, beat up, bad mouthed, and called everything in the book by collectors on a daily basis. What I was trying to do was to show that dealers are no different than collectors. They honestly can think that a slabbed coin is over-graded, in fact they often do. They are not always out to get the collector. To find some way, some made up reason to beat the collector out of his money. But the collectors always think they are ! I defy any of you to find me one story related in a forum, a coin magazine, or even an article on the net, related by a collector where the dealer offered whatever reason for his seemingly low offer for a coin or coins, and the collector did not think that the dealer was either trying to rip him off or take advantage of him of him in some way. What I'm trying to get across here is the dealer is not always the bad guy ! Sometimes he is just being honest and has a very valid reason for what you the collector consider to be a low ball offer. And no, I don't mean that that reason is the difference between wholesale and retail. Collectors need to realize that sometimes they, the collectors, screw up ! Sometimes the TPGs screw up and over-grade coins ! Sometimes the dealer is just being honest !
Sheesh Doug - your asking seasoned collectors and/or new collectors to be reasonable. You are right - can't point to article about dealers being honest, but plenty of stories on the opposite side. At the same time I can say I am very happy with the dealer I am currently working with on selling some of my coins - I think it takes two reasonable people to make things work. I know a couple of coins I will be hurt big time and will rely on him to just do his best - I completely understand I made the mistake, not him or the dealer I bought from. Common sense and being reasonable goes a long way. At the same time his knowledge and hard work is going a long way towards recovering. And if your curious of the dealer it is 900fine - can't say enough good things about working with him.
none of this happens if you buy youe coins GD approved. look at me no delaer has had the gall to call my coins overgraded . when are we starting our CAC approval service. we take the CAC coins and we put our sticker on it if it thinks it meets our standards for the grade que pasa GD
Doug - I understand your point. Some dealers are completely honest and some aren't. My point is that there are the bad apples that spoil the bunch that get all the press and create the impression that many are not honest. Perhaps this link will support why collectors are suspicious: http://coins.about.com/b/2010/01/26/coin-dealer-ethics-elderly-lady-and-her-jar-of-coins.htm
Oh I know that, and agree 100%. I have had personal experience with some that are considered to be among those with the best reputations of them all - and those stories would curl your hair. But it is important for people to realize that not all dealers are out to get you. There are times when there are legitimate reasons for what seems like a low ball offer. And it is up to the collector to educate himself to the point so that he might recognize those situations when they arise.
grandpa have you never heard if youa re good at something then never do that thing for free start the service before i go bankrupt
get him in and i promise you we will make more money then we can count but he isnt money minded and i dont have any other aces up my sleeve
