What should I do with this IHC?

The vast majority of chloride in your water is from Sodium Chloride, and other natural chlorides that are very water soluble, NOT from PVC. Yes Wikipedia has a nice write up of PVC, but you left out this part in the same article.

 

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believe what you like,whats right for you is right for you.

I did not leave that part out.it was not noted in the definition.

I know what I know from hands on experience.do you have that?
to me that is not important.

i thought I would help educate.

If it is not appreciated I will stop.and just post pictures.not my loss...

I can only lead a horse to water I cannot make them drink.

 

I do appreciate that intention. That is what the forum is about. I agree that our differences may remain unresolved, and that is far from uncommon on the forum, so I wish you a good night. I do know that Thad is a very knowledgeable Industrial Organic Chemist and I respect his opinions.

Jim

 

I agree.

One day maybe people will get to know me.and maybe they wont.

for the ones that do.My opinion will be respected more than it is now.

Good night.

 

Being educated is one thing, but being educated with mis-information perplexes the student when he is led to believe one thing and then told something completely opposite what they were taught.

Makes you wonder who's right and who's wrong, there is no consensus.

 

I can't believe you folks are so worked up over a coin that belongs in the junk box. Heck, it ain't even round!

 

Oh come on Major. Play nice. There was a lot to learn in this thread.
Most of it was over my head but I learned a bit from it. It's really cool that we have several knowledgeable Chemist here.

 

Yes! Me too! I learned that I am not a chemist or chemical engineer and I am better served by keeping my big mouth shut.

Chris

 

Fair enough. The thread is harmless and would be meangingful if it involved an 1877 or the like

As far as this coin is concerned, place your tongue between your thumb and forefinger and say "pirate ship".

 

I will place my bet on Tom, Desertjem, and Thad.

 

:whistle:

 

I'm sorry. I'm just being honest.

 

Mee too, but many here do not appreciate blunt honesty.

 

This thread started with a photo.

What does she look like now?

I know I've destroyed fewer coins since reading advice here~

~ but~

just wonder

How did you doing what you wanted

work out on this one?

Could you post an "After" along with your "Before"?

 

So wha's the green stuff on gold called? Are they both the same or do only cooper cents get verdigras?

 

Round Not?

I find her attractive & beau~tox free.

And ROUND!

 

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and the girls all look better at closin' time.

 

anything can get it as long as there is the key elements that create it.

the elements that naturally create it are copper,brass,and bronze

these elements must be present to create it,for it to be on anything,

copper chlorine

copper carbonate

cupric acetate

Verdigris,is also the same thing you commonly get on your water heater pipes.

Verdigris,may not bond to some elements like gold.depending on the structure and the tightness of the bond of the subject.Im not saying it will not eat at gold.I am making a general statement about Verdigris and how it may or may not effect some minerals in general.

 

No. This is incorrect.

Look, your intentions are good, but you don't have the details correct. I'll go through a bit of this for you, but if you don't understand what I am writing please send me a PM instead of muddying up the forums with misinformation.

PVC and verdigris are two different things and the presence of one does not require the presence or influence of the other. They are compounds independent of one another. As you already know, PVC is a repeating monomer of vinyl chloride, which can be written as [-CH(2)-CHCl-] or alternatively C(2)H(3)Cl where the parentheses indicate subscripts. PVC is fairly stable in a cool, dark and relatively dry environment, but when random chlorine atoms dissociate from the PVC chain and react with compounds such as hydronium ions they can form tiny quantities of strong acids. It's this localized production of acid that can attack the surface of a coin to etch it and deposit the familiar PVC slime. This PVC slime has previously been characterized as copper phthalate. The reaction rate is quite slow, but one must realize that within each PVC chain there are generally from 950 to 2,500 atoms of chlorine (one for each vinyl group).

Verdigris, on the other hand, is a mixed bag of copper salts including copper acetate, copper chloride, copper carbonate and other materials. The list is not entirely consistent and will change depending on the environment or other factors, I would assume. The chlorine that is present in some forms of verdigris need not come from PVC and I would imagine that nearly any ancient site that has evidence of verdigris had this compound form in the absence of PVC.

I realize you have some experience handling these compounds and that we don't know who you are or what you've done. That's fine, but I know my experience and training and I know that I understand this field to a depth that is not for everyone. If you want to know more and have questions, please send me a PM.

 

This is my first visit to this forum.
Read all posts up to this one...............this is the only valid info on polyvinyl chloride.
In fact the "vinyl groups" you mention is actually "monomeric vinyl chloride". And possibly, yes, the green could be the result of the copper reacting with the chlorine (chloride ions from vinyl chloride molecules IN THEORY!)........I guess?? But, the owner mentioned coins were kept in book (like old or new Whitman Album) and may actually be plain old exposure to moisture in air, and any chloride AND/OR sulfate/sulfide ions that the water vapor (present in the ambient air) contains. The PVC bit sounds a bit far fetched..........I majored in chem. as an undergrad. The "sweating PVC thing" may be real........but its news to me.
The owner better be damn careful dealing with the corrosion/verdegris..........depending on what ever else the copper has reacted with. Since the book/album is not hermetically sealed (none are), the green could be cupric chloride, cupric sulfide, cupric sulfate and possibly more, depending upon what is disolved in the water vapor content of the ambient air. Acetone will disolve certain polymerized materials, but I'm not sure about PVC...........but as I write this reply, and engage my brain.......who cares because that isn't PVC.........."NFW". Forget the acetone unless it surrendipitously will repair corrosive change. I have dipped bronze items (civil war artifacts) into light oil and wrap in parchament paper (to prevent oil absorbtion/evaporation) AFTER corrosion is first REMOVED (good luck) to completely seal from air for an extended period to prevent further corrosion.
Use real care in dealing with this and keep any and all coins/coinholders is a controlled enviornment............free of excessively moist air. Sheds and unfinished basements, are to be avoided, along with storage in non-airconditioned homes or buildings.
Regards,
Mike Rosen, M.D.