If this Morgan toner had straight graded what do you think it would be worth?

I'veseen some straight graded that I don't believe were NT as well. It is what it is

 

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I remember @GDJMSP posting a pair of photomicrographs years ago comparing the surfaces of an MS Morgan and an MS Peace dollar. The textures were quite different. If I'm remembering correctly, he posed that this may be one reason Morgans tone differently.

 

Great post.....are Morgans and Peace Dollars the same silver-wise ? Same silver content, same silver sources ?

 

Doug poses a lot. His poses may have varying lengths of usefulness.

The silver is the same. The chemistry is thus the same.

The big difference is that the Morgans were stored in vaults for decades. Peace dollars were generally not.

 

Here ya go:

https://www.cointalk.com/threads/what-you-need-to-know-about-the-science-of-toning.84670/

Same silver content. Sources? Not sure, but I don't think it matters -- silver is silver, and I don't think trace impurities are a factor.

 

But the toning mostly happens after folks have them and collect them, mostly in TPG holders.

So I don't think the storage pre-TPG grading/holdering is a factor, right PF ?

 

No, absolutely the opposite.

The toning occurs from the storage method between when the coin was made and when it is preserved. Natural toning often takes decades to occur.

The whole point of TPG holders is to be archival - the holder should have absolutely zero effect on the coin.

Modern holders are basically museum quality. They won't react with the coin at all!

 

You're saying the TPG holders are air-tight so whatever is happening to the Morgan has already taken place during the decades of air exposure ?

 

What's interesting is that toning takes so long to happen but spotting (i.e., blemishes on modern ASEs) happens much quicker.

 

Yes, that is exactly what I'm saying.

 

I thought it was pretty well-established that TPG holders are NOT air-tight? I've seen clear examples of coins that were gassed in their holders (white in the TPG photo, crazy colors in the same slab on eBay).

 

Well, I did post a link to the thread from that one other guy.

 

The photos are not terrible. They are perfectly fine. The first one is from a PCGS TrueView and the rest are my own to give more of a balance.

And the coin does not shout AT. As someone who collects toned Morgans, I’ve seen AT. This is far from it. While it can’t be proven to be natural, it is well within the market acceptable spectrum. NGC decided to be conservative and that’s their prerogative. Plenty of people who have seen the coin disagree with their opinion.

 

Key here is the ASE is a different composition. The purity of silver in the ASE is much higher. Toning effects will be different.

I've heard that other guy you linked to is really smart, knowledgeable, handsome, and wonderful in every imaginable way;

 

Yeah, gassed coins exist. It is true. The TPG slabs are not airtight.

However.... for the vast majority of collectors... TPG slabs are really freakin good. They protect against most environmental concerns.

 

I don't remember Doug with such a photo, although he did describe it. Perhaps these I have posted here before. Both MS : Morgan on the left and Peace on Right 200X



Morgan 400X


Jim

 

No, some of the old time envelopes imparted very good, very bad or middling toning on silver and copper coins. I “fixed” some copper coins that had been cleaned (without hairlines) or dipped by storing them in those envelopes. It did take three years or more to work, however.

 

What are we looking at here ?

 

Yep, those are the photos I remember. I do wonder how the difference between those particular Peace and Morgan surfaces compares to the variation within each series. Also, I wonder if 1921 Morgans are their own species when it comes to surface microtexture...?

I wish @Electron John were still around. I'm curious as to just how "pointy" the ridges of those flow lines truly are...