NCS Coin Conservation and Grades

Has anyone submitted a graded coin to NCS for conservation and re-grade and, as a result, received a higher grade after the conservation? Thanks in advance for your responses.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

While we are all waiting for an answer. You would be interested to know that something similar is how NCS got started. A raw gem $10 Indian was submitted but it had copper spots. We removed the spots and the coin's grade went up. That's one of the uses of conservation. Raising the eye appeal of a coin.

Now I can kick myself for not taking before/after images of an XF1838-D $5 I "fixed" this morning but it was nothing special to me - a very easy conservation. There was an ugly brownish stain on the coin's shield that was the first thing your eye was drawn to - ugh. I returned just that small area of the coin back to its natural look w/o affecting the color or skin of the rest of the coin. Now, it looks amazing if I say so myself.

 

Reason I was asking is that I'm contemplating sending the coin below (1936 proof Walker) for conservation and regrading. There's a lot of film on the coin, and I don't know if that contributed to the PR 62 grade. I'd be tickled pink if I could get the coin to grade 63 (or higher, lol). Any thoughts on whether it would be worth going that approach?

 

Don't waste your money. You will not like the result! If this were my coin, I'd crack it out and sell it. That's because it cannot be saved. It has terminal oxidation (toning ) = corrosion. When the black color is removed, a dull gray etched surface will remain around the rim. So, sell it or leave it as is in the slab.

There is also a touch of friction on both sides. Light color "dot" on the breast is easy to see. That is probably why the coin did not get a 63 0r 64 grade.

 

I really appreciate your frank assessment. I'll keep it in the slab and look to sell it sometime in the near future, and try to get a better grade/condition '36 proof Walker. I have all of the other year Walker proofs in decent grades, but the '36 proof was dragging the collection down.

 

NCS does good work, but the results can vary depending on the coin. Quite a bit of that has to do with them conserving any coin for which conservation is requested.

Most of the work with conserving a coin is determining whether or not a coin is a good candidate for conservation, and is best done when evaluating a coin for purchase. The problem here is that if someone isn't comfortable doing their own conservation, they are likely not familiar with conservation techniques and therefore at a significant disadvantage in terms of properly evaluating coins for conservation. So it's a catch 22.

 

Thank you, Jaelus. I have used NCS Conservation before for a 1811/0 large cent that had environmental damage. They did a good job in trying to preserve the coin from more future corrosion. In that case, I was not looking for a potential upgrade (it was an XF details coin).

I think Insider gave me a good insight as to what I could likely expect if I tried to have the 1936 proof Walker conserved. I won't consider cracking it out and trying to conserve it myself; I think it's probably best to leave it as is and sell it if my goal is to get a higher grade 1936 proof.

I really appreciate the more experienced and qualified posters, such as you and Insider, for the helpful advice.

 

Regarding the Walker, I think the eye appeal could be improved some with conservation, and if it was my coin I would attempt it myself. The haziness across the fields for example is likely removable. You're not going to get great results trying to remove the dark toning in the periphery. That I would not attempt, for the reasons Insider already enumerated.

 

When you sell the coin, crack it out. It will bring more money "raw." Additionally, @Jaelus let out something in the "Coin Doctor's Secrets" book.

Haze removal: If done PROPERLY (it will be undetectable) the center of the coin can be brightened. If not done properly, you can tell the haze was removed.

 

I find haze on silver proofs to be one of the most consistently removable surface conditions. If it's got the right "look" you can remove it. I've conserved many many proofs like the one below. Some looked bad enough that you couldn't tell they were proofs. After conservation they grade PF68-70 UCAM. But! It's about buying the right candidates for conservation in the first place.

Here's an example of one I conserved in a larger batch of hazy proofs a couple weeks ago. Not the best pics but I did take a few on my cell phone as I was explaining some conservation techniques to a couple people while I was doing it.

Before:


After (technically mid-process, but the end results were the same or a bit better):

 

I fear cracking it out and trying to sell it as a raw coin because potential buyers may have doubts as to its authenticity as a proof coin. At least the NGC slab helps establish its authenticity as a proof.

Is there such a book, or is that jokingly referring to the practices of the trade for restoring or altering coins?

 

Found some additional pics to illustrate another point. Not everything can be improved all the way.

For example this one coin in the batch I did:


I knew this one would improve but likely not completely, as you can see:


I selected this coin because the more important obverse was not quite as bad and I thought it would improve all the way, and it did (sorry I don't have a before pic of the obverse but it was comparable to the reverse above):

 

Wow, huge difference! If I tried using diluted E*Z*est on my coin, I'd be really concerned about the potential results that Insider described, and then be left with a raw coin that looks even worse than it does now.

 

I try not to use E*Z*est. I do use it in some situations, but it can diminish the luster even if you accomplish what you wanted to do. I try instead to avoid buying coins that I feel I would need to dip to make them palatable. I did not use it on the above proofs.

 

Can you share the process that you used for the coins you posted? Whatever you did, it had great results.

 

It's complicated. I have given presentations in person on the history of coin conservation and the general techniques involved and why they work, but I've only taught a few people how to do this in detail. It takes a long time to develop a working knowledge of conservation because every coin is unique. It's one of those things you have to figure out for yourself. As @Insider alluded to, it's really a somewhat secretive side to the hobby.

I will say, the thing people tend to get wrong is to come away thinking there's one specific process they should use with every coin, and that's just not the case. There are various chemicals you can buy and various techniques you can use with them, but there are also many different coining metals, finishes, and surface conditions. Ultimately, knowing what will work on a given coin and in what order just comes with experience. And as I said above, even more important is knowing which coins are good candidates for conservation and which coins should be left alone.

 

If you ever decide to an do online video presentation and open it up to folks who may be interested, please send me a message. I'll gladly pay a fee if there is a reasonable fee charge for viewing the presentation. The max extent of my prior attempts have been to use E*Z*est diluted with distilled water for lower value silver coins with haze, and preventive light coat of Coin Care on copper coins with one swipe of a soft jeweler's brush.

 

The "book" is in his head.

Anyone who cannot tell your coin is a proof ot of the slab is no going to have the knowledge to give you a fair price for it!

 

I greatly appreciate both of you (Insider and Jaelus) taking the time to educate and impart your wisdom and experience.

 

NCS nor PCGS nor ANACS will conserve any coin requested. All of them will only do so if they determine it will help the coin, if the coin looks worse after they either did it wrong or were wrong in the assessment