Toning Question

I was browsing through eBay recently and saw a 2009 Kennedy Half Dollar (I think it was) that was very well toned. Is this fake? How long does natural toning take for a nice rainbow effect to appear?

 

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Yes it's fake. Toning takes a very long time.

 

Please define "very long".

I've seen coins stored in a Wayte Raymond albums get a rainbow toning in a little over a year.

Typically, it takes significantly longer.

Chances are, the coin is AT, but I'd like to see it myself before passing judgment....Mike

 

Wayte raymond toning is not concidered natural, that is Concidered by many to be accelerated toning. Natural toning is considered mint bag toning, end of roll toning etc.

 

I love it !

 

I'm moaning about toning. In reality, true "ntural" toning takes decades. Also, a 100 year old "white" coin is always suspect. The GSA coins provide an interesting commentary on toning. Some are white, some toned. I believe it is environmental in nature.

 

Me to

 

Well, I'm not too sure about that definition. It seems to me that the definition of AT, and conversely NT, will by its very nature change from collector to collector or dealer to dealer. Some folks might agree with you while others will invoke intent to a greater degree while still others will say that if it's in a PCGS or NGC holder then it is market acceptable (MA) and then there are those who believe no one can tell the difference.

 

You are certainly entitled to define "natural" however you want, but the TPGs in practice disagree with you and slab those coins all the time.

 

Duplicate post.

 

Tom, I agree with the first 2, intent ( almost impossible to determine in most cases, but is still a factor), market acceptability ( if one buys or sells, you have to accept the game rules, even if they seem arbitrary), but I would like to add to the 3rd point to make it ~~and then there are those who believe no one can tell the difference if it is an expert AT job. As chemistry is chemistry as Sunny did a very good job of explaining the processes over in the other forum.

Jim
​

 

they dont disagree, i have talked to plenty of grades from both companies who do not believe toning coins in wayte raymond holders is considered natural, becuase you are purposely doing it, its just considered market acceptable. i have had serveral coins that were AT because I know who ATd them and they all got into PCGS holders.

 

poor GD he is stll on the same track but i have something new to offer

spocks toning service - its completely organic we use no chemicals or additives anything we dont even touch the coin yet it tones in less than a week

It is possible to stop a coin from toning completely using sacrificial metals and other methods. Intercept has been using those for a bit now. buy one of those shoe boxes GD and use it it works wonders

oh i forgot coins are artificial they are not naturally found in nature so to call a coin AT ? you guys be the judge. i only ask the question you guys give the answers ( also GD's point is a valid one about intent) but i havent heard him speak his mind on partail grading and computer grading. those should be interesting especially how they went from a b and c to decimals rounding it to .5 ( perhaps a different thread)

over to UNCle GD

btw isnt that my avatar that you have there GD. be a dear and put it back on me will you with the original colors of course

Hey

 

Which graders did you speak with?

Would you please post photos of the coins you know are AT and are in PCGS holders?

Thanks...Mike

 

• How do the graders know the coin submitted was in a Wayte Raymond holder?
• Even if they did know the coin was in a Wayte Raymond holder, how can they prove the collector specifically placed them into the holder to tone them instead of simply attempting to store their coins?

While I respect the individual opinions of professional graders, it really isn't relevant to the overall debate. You will find that the numismatic community including collectors, dealers, and graders are divided on the definition of AT vs NT. You know that I hold a very liberal opinion in this area. Since there is no way to prove that a coin developed it's toning from a Wayte Raymond holder, it can't be condemned as AT.

 

this was in a PCGS MS66 holder.



this was in a PCGS MS64 holder



and this



and there were a few more too, but I dont have any pics.

 

because those coins were blast white a week before when i saw them. Secondly 1888-Os dont tone that crazy, they are a date that you dont see very nice, a great example is the Sunnywood coin, his was not all that spectacular either and he spent 10+ years assembling that set. Plus what are the chances that all 3 of those coins have the same colors and toning pattern, not very likely.