Silver Eagle values

@Dimedude2 is not selling his ASE's. He's looking for a price today for a possible theft or loss in the future. Todays Red Book pricing is just as valid for this purpose as the Red Book price last year or the Red Book price next year.

If there's no loss, the value placed on the ASE's today is moot. Using the Red Book, Blue Book, Grey Sheet, eBay sold or eBay For Sale pricing just doesn't matter.

 

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You are correct, as I stated previously, but is it an accurate market value?, the book says its NOT, and in the event of a legal action, as the insurers' attorney, I would show the printed declaration.

In the eyes of a court the only real value is that which was paid by the buyer for the item.

In the event of an insured loss, the value will be that paid subjectively by the insurer, who can be shown as I reported, to stall through Statute of Limitations period, paying their token amount.

You're correct, that any value selected is irrelevant, other than the purchase value, until there's a claim.

The value to be reported, logically should be the greatest current sales amount to be found, or one derived from a publication that reports relatively current price establishment.

That is what I would teach a questioning student in my class, or whatever value they'd establish for USPS shipping.

JMHO

 

If theres no loss whether or not you have insurance is moot. The Red Book has just simply never been a good source of pricing other than seeing what dates are more expensive than others

 

If you're going to quote me and subsequently respond to that quote you can be fair and quote at the bare minimum the whole paragraph for context. Instead you quote one sentence and contort the message I wrote.

If you notice I stated that using any of the above listed sources for pricing doesn't matter. Not just the Red Book. Any of those sources are nothing more than a price at a moment in time that's irrelevant to the value at the time of a loss. If you've insured your collection for replacement value, then the only price that matters is the market price when the loss occurs.

 

I'm curious how this plays out in practice, because policies are usually written based on an estimated value at the time the policy is written, with premiums set on that basis.

What if I insured a 1921 Peace dollar based on a value of $300 (in 2019 or 2020), then sustained a loss in 2021 when it was closer to an $800 coin? Replacing it would cost $800, but the insurance company would've been collecting premiums based on $300.

Insurance companies are betting that you won't sustain a loss, and now we're adding a gamble that the insured item's value won't drastically increase. I guess that's all just part of the equation -- until a year or two ago, nobody would've imagined the price of a five-year-old used car spiking, either, but here we are.

 

While true that the price matters when the loss happens, the value you listed does matter in the sense that it will be a cap on the payment with most insurance. I'm not sure how the Huge Woods insurance handles claims in terms of value, but I do know that non numismatic insurance companies really dont like covering coins and will look for any reason to deny/limit their payout including the items being under insured

 

Hugh Wood uses market value at the time of loss.

 

Absolutely correct. Premiums are written by actuaries that have to take into account life expectancy (for life insurance), future market value for known fine art, collectible automobiles, mansions, etc. The same holds true for numismatic collectibles.

The variables associated with different commodities, real estate, art, hobbies, special events (NASA space launches, trans oceanic cargo shipments) and the likes are reasons there are specialty insurers, ie: Lloyd's of London.

The same holds true for lesser scale insurance policies. The premiums are proportionately lower, but they're more expensive than traditional/standard policies. That's why these items become either riders to an existing policy or stand alone policies for certain high ticket or exotic items. The premiums will be commensurate with the risk to the insurer.

 

You seemingly enjoy communicating theoretical statements while denying reality.

I could cite numerous insurance industry reports about singular incidents/names, but I'll just post an extensive report, where others can investigate their insurer:
https://www.dfwpersonalinjurylawyer...en-a-good-neighbor-becomes-a-bad-neighbor.cfm

I've been involved in many areas of insurance, with many companies, having many associates employed in insurance sales, and often that sold isn't delivered.

State AG and CC departments generally avoid any interaction with company representatives, recommending a private attorney.

Please concentrate on presented facts, rather than idealistic fantasy.

JMHO

 

You should try reading what was posted before starting with the insults. The man posted the truth. You don't know what you are talking about.

 

"Extensive report" -- OK, that must mean it's got lots of data. Let's see what we've got.

Broad accusation, broad accusation, class-action lawsuit, Consumer Reports survey, Yelp reviews, complaints about insurance companies making money -- and then the stinger: State Farm is likely to lowball you on your settlement, but if you hire a good attorney (like, oh, say, "us"), you'll likely get three or four times more money!

Look, I totally believe that State Farm customers have gotten shafted. Lots of them; it's a huge company, as the ad (sorry, "report") says. My own good experiences with State Farm over the last thirty-odd years, and my parents' before that, are only anecdotes. All the same, I'm continuing to carry insurance, and I'm not jumping ship.

 

Not worth much to me.

 

I'm very happy for you, as I believe the investigation was more thorough than that of a now private individual we all probably know.

I personally had some very bad personal experiences with them.

Documented education for insurance agent:
Agents must be licensed in the states where they plan to work. Insurance sales agents are typically required to have a high school diploma to enter the occupation. However, employers may prefer to hire candidates who have a bachelor's degree. Agents must be licensed in the states where they work.Apr 18, 2022
Typical Entry-Level Education: High school dip...
On-the-job Training: Moderate-term on-the-job ...
Work Experience in a Related Occupation: No...

A lightning strike on a ~3' diameter White Pine traveled underground 650 feet on my "star-light" camera system wiring into my basement, causing an explosion and fire which traveled up-ward through the fully insured house.

They stalled until Statute time elapsed, during the 2 years I built an energy efficient home.

The insurance negotiator actually followed me, saying he needed my signature to close the claim, offering to replace just my camera system for ~25% of my policy coverage, or nothing.

They hired a company with who had no experience with long distance low-level night vision capability, with ~800 feet of buried wire to my home.

The cameras installed were only day-light type, and they laid the wiring on the ground in a well traveled area.

A complete Fiasco!

A Time insurance policy was purchased on my 1 year old son where they completed the policy paperwork, and listed him as owner.

The same with my wife where she never knew of, saw the policy, or paid 1 cent, listing her as owner, collecting from my account for 58 years, cancelling the policies last year, never allowing me to have contact with the company.

They billed her for years, requesting her to deliver an affidavit of policy ownership for a substantial payment.

My son refused to allow her to accept a cash-out payment.

I could go on, but I know you understand if you've done any investigation of "insurance".

I left my 30+ year senior position with a 95,000 employee international company, at age 56 to do Pro-Bono efforts. I was nominated/elected as the presiding officer in organizations for the Elderly, who are constantly scammed, needing guidance as believed observed here.

Best Wishes, Rich

 

I was afraid you had, and it looks like your experiences were even worse than I feared. I'm sorry you had to deal with it.

It seems to me that there's a big component of luck here -- as in, my family and I have been lucky to get good insurance representatives, resulting in good experiences. If the company's policies and practices are such that we need to rely on that luck, though, I completely agree with you that the company's policies and practices need to be put under the spotlight, and fixed.

But, as you (and the linked document) say, we're fighting against an entrenched bureaucratic industry, with entrenched political connections. I don't know how to tackle that, and I'm already overloaded with things that I need to tackle despite not knowing how...

 

I beg to differ with your observations, at risk of not learning from 60+ years of establishing others in new businesses, dealing with insurance agencies where we/I followed the insurance analytical algorithms in generating procedures to minimize potential risks/liabilities.

I've helped young insurance agents to form/start offices for insuring.

The procedures are computer generated based on risk analysis of past cases in the industry.

The computer algorithmic generation is the reason we can't win against the activities supported by past efforts that were cost/time effective.

Specialty insurers often are required because of unsupported past efforts.

I defer to your statements if you have proof that differs from my practical understandings.

I've been wrong before, and I love learning from others' experiences/knowledge.

Thanks for your insight!

 

Well said. I'll add that a person needs to read and understand the policy before they agree with it. With coins, you need to be sure that market value at time of loss is clear in the policy.
I'm a big fan of Hugh Wood. The policy makes it clear how a loss will be handled.

 

I wish I didn’t start this post.I was just looking for Market Values to get an estimate for insurance, likely with Hugh Wood or somewhere. It wasn’t that much. I did get good estimates and I’m fine.

 

you should have mentioned those specifics at the beginning.
market value .... for insurance ... for Hugh Wood (etc).

 

Don’t mind us as you’ve been around Lind enough to know what can happen. Lol

 

Thank you for following up and validating everything me and most here have been saying.

Good luck on getting a favorable premium. And here's to hoping you never have to file a claim.