I just won a few lots from a dealer in Spain called Jesus Vico, I did ask the dealer about shipping estimates and he/she estimated that the coins would probably arrive in mid-September. Is this long shipping time due to Spanish export licenses? Is there a way to avoid the long wait? Maybe I can have Jesus Vico declare the items differently to avoid having to wait for those export licenses? Any one have any experience with this or know how to deal with this issue?
if you look on their website under info and then go to terms, it says "this process can normally take between 3 and 6 weeks." you should always check terms before bidding
Ah, I see. Still, it should have been stated in the header or on the main page, it's a very unusual wait time. I'm sure there were a lot of surprised bidders like me who were expecting a week or two of handling time.
Still, does anyone know of a way to expedite this process or to declare the package differently so Jesus Vico wouldn't need an export liscense?
It is related to The Heritage Act of 1985, which was originally put into law to protect known archeological sites from unnecessary removal of artifacts. It is currently being used as a catch all like other countries are doing to try to control the exportation of important finds. An export license is required and can take a number of weeks to obtain. Circumventing the process is obviously something between the two parties and accepting the risk of being caught doing so.
There is no way to expedite, and no major auction house that charges for export licenses is willing to do anything to skip the process, they could get into serious trouble for that. The only way to skip it is to not export the coins(for instance if you were traveling), otherwise you can skip the fees, but not the wait, by having it shipped to someone else in the EU, assuming the cost of then re-shipping it is less than what you saved in fees.
I received an answer back from Jesus Vico about other shipping and declaring methods and the Auction House states that while some Spanish Auction Houses do not follow these procedures, they are not acting correctly and if caught they could be hit with a severe fine by a particular Spanish Ministry. I had an idea before about having the Auction House ship a package via DHL with another item (not a coin) inside like a T-Shirt maybe and then coins in coin flips tucked inside but a reputable dealer like Jesus Vico won't go for shady things like that I guess. Even though it would probably work.
Bear in mind that not only are you asking the auction house to commit a potentially serious crime but you may be committing a crime yourself by conspiring to evade customs.
In general, Spain levies a descriptive level for offences. Minor, serious and very serious. Serious, like customs fraud is serious and carries a 6,000 Euro fine. Depending on the mood of the authorities this can be PER COIN as separate transgressions not as one offence
Ok, I will wait for my coins like a sad puppy, some have had to wait several months for their coins to arrive from Spain Thanks for the advice and info.
Long wait times for Spanish auction lots applies to scale weights also. I paid for a lot on April 21st and am still waiting for the lot 87 days later, but who's counting. I will still bid on stuff in Spanish auctions, but the bar is set higher. I will not bid on something that does not fill a specific need.
Just got this message from the Jesus Vico auction house today, "Dear Customer, According to the Spanish law, in order to prepare an official invoice, we would need a ID number (VAT number, passport number, driver license... any will do) to identify the customer. This number is necessary to meet the Spanish law requirements. Thank you in advance for your cooperation. Best regards," Now that is quite extreme, did anyone else have to provide ID/VAT number to get an invoice from Jesus Vico?
Some people are only now complying with the anti money laundering, and anti fraud laws which have been in place for some years. We have been requiring customer ID confirmation for 4 years now for an official invoice.
Yes, I've had that request (and complied) from multiple Spanish auction houses. (I'm the USA, just give them my Driver License # or photo with certain things blacked out.) I have two reactions, personally, but understand that others will feel differently. (N.B., I've shared more or less the same thoughts in multiple venues re: questions about Spain's export licenses.) First, I'm a "papyrophile" (love paperwork) and fastidious about recording all provenance details. So I love it when I get export licenses (worth the wait and fee for me), and appreciate that the coins won't have any trouble with U.S. Customs once they have the License (unless, conceivably, they figure it was first found elsewhere and then "trafficked" through Spain). Examples from one of my Vico purchases: *EDIT: Vico seems to send the licenses, but at other auction houses/dealers you may have to ask them include a copy for your records. Second, I do agree that ancient coins are different from other commercial objects, so I accept a certain public interest or governmental oversight on trading. I do NOT agree with the extreme "nationalist" versions that all antiquities/ancient coins belong within the modern political borders where they're found or that the trade should be eliminated. I do try to support the systems of countries (e.g., Britain, much of W. Europe) where they've found a way to allow legal trade to continue, rather than the "prohibition" approach elsewhere (most of E. Europe and Middle East, N. Africa). Whether the restrictions are unfair and present an unreasonable burden to Spanish dealers (especially small ones), I cannot say. But as an American buyer, I accept and even appreciate the Spanish system.
My longest wait for a coin was from December to April. It was also from a Spanish auction. I think only part of that was due to export license paperwork. But it definitely played a role.
Alright, I will do what I have to do to get my precious coins. They were NOT cheap but the wait will be worth it in my mind. Thanks everyone.
My lots from J Vico arrived last week, or 3 months after the invoice paperwork date of April 26. I was hoping to see inscriptions on the cup weight, but no. I also hoped for inscriptions on the large barrel weight (a 3 uncia weight, 79.5 grams), but no. The pieces were dirty. I might be able to clean them a bit and see a few letters. The small weights had letters. One was an IB = half an uncia, 12.74 grams.
I notice a lot of coins that are actually recently dug out of the ground in Spanish Auction sites, they didn't bother to clean the remaining layer of dirt off. It's nice to know that the earliest pedigree could be traced back to me.
I have been informed by certain Spanish retail dealers (I won't name them) that an export license for ancient coins is NOT always required, for example when the coin has a documented provenance to a country other than Spain, and/or (if I recall correctly what I was told) when its value is below a certain amount. Is any of that true, or are these dealers really just ignoring the requirement for a license?
I believe that the first part is correct, re: provenance outside Spain, or if it's been imported recently for consignment. I don't think I've seen the exact language (maybe it's on my export paperwork?) but that's what I've read from a few sources. I hadn't heard about the value requirement, but it wouldn't surprise me. It might have to be pretty low, though, since I've been charged for & received export licenses for coins as cheap as 25 EUR plus fees! (The AR Dirhams in the photo above.) I've noticed some coins needed export licenses and other coins didn't in a single order; or one order does, the next doesn't, from the same dealers. So some coins must be exempt.
