My friend who runs the local coin,silver and gold exchange called to have me look at some gemstones for advice and showed me this coin which was given to him by a person who deals a lot with Chinese importers. Thought some might like to see some photos. It is true dimensions of a cent, but weighs only 2.85 grams compared to a similar grade 1942 which weighed 3.10 grams. It isn't the best job by far, as you can see some layering of the metal to the right of the date and also a ground area where the sprue was probably located as it is cast ( the grainy and diffuse surfaces indicate this). I wanted to keep it, but I had to give it back. With a loupe or scope, it is readily apparent, but for someone new to the game, you can tell how they would be excited to find this. It is NOT attracted to a magnet, and it has a nice ring to it on a surface. Jim
Actually the 3 of 1943 was funky looking any how. Not like the normal expected. Here is a real 1943 D cent. The 3 in the counterfeit is worn and flattened a little, but is close to the correct shape. Jim
Some day soon (I hope not) they are going to be able to make coins that will pass for real. Can/could you tell what they are doing to tone the coin?
No, I didn't want to try any solvents or anything since I had to give it back, even afraid to use acetone on it. I tried to buy it as a specimen, but it was not for sale. If they start using some of the new casting polymers, they will produce ones with less of a grainy effect. But I am sure die struck ones will come along soon at proper weight. Jim
Jim I suggest to you that the coin you post about is struck - not cast. Cast coins do not ring, they clunk or go thud. And the Chinese counterfeiters are not making cast coins, they are striking them. The grainy effect you see on this coin is typical of electrotype dies. And what I see by the date looks to be more like the tip of a wheat stalk from a die clash than anything else.
Might be from electrotype dies, but the reason I had doubts about die struck , was that there was a lot of abrasive work ( you can see some that is at the sprue point ( or cud if die struck). This was on the outer edge of the coin to a lesser extent. If die struck, I would expect the rims would not need grinding. I will have to go and see if I can borrow it again and look at the edge more carefully. The weight also seemed to go towards cast, but I wouldn't bet on it. Isn't the discoloration in the wrong direction for a die clash of the wheat. Jim
Sneaky little buggers. I've been seeing a lot and I mean a whole lot of counterfeits over the last year or so.
Yes it sure is, wrong location too. But I know of no other way such an impression could get onto a die. And I know of no way such an impression could get onto cast coin, so it stands to reason that it was a die. Add the ring the coin has that you mentioned and you have a struck coin.
It's a pretty good try, thanks for sharing with us. I wonder why they bothered to attempt a counterfeit of such a very, very rare coin. There's really no way in h3ll it's going to pass as genuine. Their time would be better spent faking a 14D.
It is probably part need or greed, challenge of skills, ego to see if it would pass, or a warped sense of art or rebellion. I hate to admit it, but it has crossed my mind as a fun thing to try for the challenge and warped sense of art. I have gone so far as to use plastics and epoxy, but I have resisted casting even though I have a kiln. And no this is not my work!! Jim
I think it's been going on for much more than a year now! The volume seems to be getting much higher now. I think the Chinese economy is probably going through a similar cycle now, so many out of work Chinese are doing whatever it takes to make a living, which may include counterfeiting coins.
Drop it onto a hard surface, I like to use a glass table at my house. You can hear distinctive differences between silver, 95% copper and zinc core very easily.....for example.
I never tried that one. I've done ring tests tapping silver dollars with a plastic pen. I hope the OP can get some shots of the edge so we see if shows signs of a casting port or seam. Or ejection marks if it was struck. I think it's a cast. I don't why it would ring. We need to see the edge. If it's struck the OP should see ejection marks with a loupe.
If you flick it out of your finger and listen to it (especially with morgan dollars) they almost all have the same distinctive note, unless badly damaged or fake they will have an angelic silver bell ring to it. Flip some morgans and you'll see
