A Denarius of Otho

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Gam3rBlake, May 12, 2022.

  1. Gam3rBlake

    Gam3rBlake Well-Known Member

  2. Avatar

    Guest User Guest



    to hide this ad.
  3. Cucumbor

    Cucumbor Well-Known Member

    Good job @Gam3rBlake
    The day you snag an Otho can't be a bad day. I got mine in 1998. By then it was the most expensive coin in my collection by far, and remained so for many years

    0082-210.jpg
    Otho, denarius - Rome mint, AD 69
    IMP M OTHO CAESAR AVG TR P, Bare head of Otho right
    SECURITAS PR, Securitas standing left
    3.50 gr
    Ref : RIC # 8, RCV #2162, Cohen #17

    Q
     
  4. Limes

    Limes Well-Known Member

    Congratulations on your Otho! Below is mine.
    12.1.png
    Personally, I find coins of Otho the least interesting of the 12 Caesars. But it's a must have to complete the set.
     
  5. Gam3rBlake

    Gam3rBlake Well-Known Member

    Wow what a beauty!!! O_O

    Yeah I can definitely understand why it was the most expensive for so many years lol.

    Believe it or not my Otho was actually cheaper than my Augustus & Vespasian. Augustus for me was by far the most expensive of all.
     
    Cucumbor likes this.
  6. Gavin Richardson

    Gavin Richardson Well-Known Member

    I agree with Donna. That’s a bold legend. I would be happy to have that coin in my collection.

    BAFCEDD2-3D3F-40A8-A791-B4FC8861AFBB.jpeg
     
  7. robinjojo

    robinjojo Well-Known Member

    It's interesting, comparing the Anitoch tetradrachm with the posted denarii of Otho, how the tetradrachm's portrait has some resemblance to Nero's, especially with the nose.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2022
    Gam3rBlake likes this.
  8. Severus Alexander

    Severus Alexander find me at NumisForums

    I corresponded with @Gam3rBlake about this coin, raising some concerns, and they encouraged me to raise my worries here. We're both curious to hear what others think.

    There are a few details about this coin, especially the obverse, that give me pause. Otho denarii are frequently faked, so one has to be extra vigilant! Here are my main concerns:

    • I can't find a die match for the obverse, or anything even close (I didn't try for the reverse). The portrait doesn't fit comfortably with any of the types described by Muona.
    • The portrait style is very odd. I note in particular the shape of the face/nose, the forehead hair, and the hairstyle at the back. I can't find anything like it.
    • The letterforms in the legends are distinctly odd. Otho denarii don't usually have squared-off letters like this.
    • The legend spacing and legend stops are odd. Look in particular at the huge space between "IMP" and "M" as well as the very prominent legend stop between "M" and "OTHO". Again, I can't find anything like this, especially the gargantuan legend stop. The obverse legend also ends around 4 o'clock, which is extremely unusual.

    In my opinion the ANACS certification isn't worth much for ancients. Gam3r pointed out that the coin came from Heritage, a reliable auction house, which is a good point. However, I wonder how much Heritage's reliability depends on their heavy use of NGC... which they evidently did not make use of for this coin.

    What do y'all think?

    Here's my Otho, posted many times. But it's one of my favourites:
    otho.jpg
     
  9. Gam3rBlake

    Gam3rBlake Well-Known Member

    If others agree that mine is not an authentic Otho I will contact Heritage on Monday about a refund.

    However I am curious to see what others here think regarding authenticity of this coin.
     
    Kentucky and Severus Alexander like this.
  10. Kentucky

    Kentucky Supporter! Supporter

    Severus Alexander likes this.
  11. Gam3rBlake

    Gam3rBlake Well-Known Member

    I’m curious to see as well! :)

    Normally I would be terrified to find out a coin I paid $400 for was fake but I know that if Heritage Auctions made a mistake and this is a fake they will refund me.

    The last thing big name auction houses want is for their reputations to take a big hit because they let fakes slide through.
    o_O
     
  12. Ryro

    Ryro Trying to remove supporter status

    fc930a28-14d6-4aad-adae-87daf0f9315e_text.gif
     
  13. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

    @Gam3rBlake, have you compared your coin to the examples at the Fake Ancient Coin Reports at the link posted by @Severus Alexander?

    Now that my attention has been called to the lettering, it does look a bit odd. And it's quite a coincidence that the letters of Otho's name just happen to be so remarkably distinct compared to most of the rest of the legend, and compared to the extent of wear on the design on both sides. But I don't consider myself remotely expert enough to pronounce it a fake.
     
  14. Gam3rBlake

    Gam3rBlake Well-Known Member

    Yup! I can’t find any exact matches to mine at that link but I do see the concerns he has regarding my coin and I have contacted HA’s Senior Numismatist regarding these concerns and what steps I should take next.
     
  15. octavius

    octavius Well-Known Member

    HA is a reputable company. See what they say. I think they will make good if you have doubts. Good luck on completing your series! You have a great rare Vitellius.

    a10.jpg
     
  16. Gam3rBlake

    Gam3rBlake Well-Known Member

    Fortunately it wasn’t a super super expensive coin but I’m thinking about sending it to NGC to see what they say.

    If NGC sends it back in a “NOT GENUINE” body bag then at least I have some evidence to support it being a fake.

    My issue right now is that it will be hard to convince HA that it’s a fake based solely on this forum. They’ll want some kind of other proof of it being fake.

    Hopefully I hear back from Sarah on Monday. She has always been wonderful in helping me navigate any issues I have with Heritage.

    If not then my last resort is a complaint on the BBB website which I know Heritage frequently responds to but that is a last resort kind of thing and I think HA should have the opportunity to solve it themselves first.
     
    octavius likes this.
  17. Mat

    Mat Ancient Coincoholic

    Or, hopefully, @Barry Murphy can save you the trouble and reply in the thread his opinion on the coin.
     
    Gam3rBlake likes this.
  18. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Well-Known Member

    Don't send it to NGC until you've heard from Sarah. My guess is that Zach Beasley -- when presented with the concerns that @Severus Alexander raises -- will issue you a refund.
     
    Gam3rBlake likes this.
  19. Gam3rBlake

    Gam3rBlake Well-Known Member

    Oh ok yeah I’ll wait to hear back from Heritage first.

    Who is David Vagi? Is that the owner of Heritage? Or the owner of ANACS?
     
  20. Gam3rBlake

    Gam3rBlake Well-Known Member

    He has commented on my thread before when I couldn’t figure out why my Domitian denarius got a 2/5 surface grade and so hopefully he will comment here :)
     
  21. Gam3rBlake

    Gam3rBlake Well-Known Member

    P.S. Here is the Heritage listing of my coin just in case anyone wants proof I bought it from Heritage.

    1E102599-D813-49C9-BA2F-B1A80ED1146C.png
     
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page