Coin Care Chemical

Here's a little snippet from my verdigris book:

 

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No. As I mentioned, I believe it conditions and actually protects copper and helps repel spit specks (people talking over a naked coin and "spraying" their tiny drops of spit on it). I do blot them dry and also use a very soft camel hair brush to help remove residue before I holder the coin. I put it on my own coins when I first started collecting and although I have upgraded quite a few of them over the years, the ones I still have look great.

 

Thad, I respect and applaud your undertaking in putting this book together, and can't even imagine the time, effort, and research that have gone into gathering and organizing all this information. But, I need a favor. Science and chemistry were probably my worst subjects in school and all those big technical-sounding words go way over my head, so I may need to have a "dummy-downed" version of your book just to understand what you're saying!

 

I would not even have thought of using butane. Too many hassles with butane. Lighter fluid to me means charcoal or Zippo. I would almost be willing to bet Tom is referring to one of those two.

BTW, I used to go through about 10,000 gallons of butadiene in a month. Not the worlds nicest stuff in any aspect.

 

I'm glad this was clarified.

In a coin context, I was thinking lighter fluid sold in cans, a liquid used to light charcoal.

The quote above is NOT that lighter fluid ! The quote above refers to the cheap plastic lighters sold for 99c at the convenience store checkout. And here is the key :

Butane is a gas at room temperature and pressure.

I see no way butane isomers would be useful in a coin context. Butane is what Mick Jagger was talking about when he said

"Jumpin' Jack Flash
it's a gas gas gas!!!"
​

The liquid lighter fluid is probably a mixture of hexanes and heavier common hydrocarbons. But it's irrelevant - don't use lighter fluid.

 

"lipophilic" loosely means "fat loving". Basically "like dissolves like" i.e. organic solvents dissolve organics (acetone dissolves Coin Care oil).

Verdigris is not organic, so an organic solvent will not dissolve it. IOW, it's ineffective (which you already knew).

The word "solubulize" means dissolve.

 

I echo Charmy in applauding your efforts. Perhaps consider your "target audience". If your intended audience is rank and file hobbyists, almost everyone will need a "dummy-downed" version.

Case in point : the snippet above. Charmy already knew everything necessary - that organic solvents won't help with verdigris. And yet, the language lost her !

The problem isn't the audience - it's the language, unless the intent is to reach only chemists and chemical engineers.

 

Generally, they use naphtha (naphthalene) and I have seen toluene. Nothing nearly so light as hexane. I see nothing wrong with using the ingredients if they were pure. However, I suspect these are some of the worst refined materials they can find.

 

Yes, excellent point. The verdigris removal sections are only random thoughts at the moment. It's a work in progress. I will modify the section to specify naphtha. Thanks

 

Charmy, the terms are well explained throughout the book and there's sections before this one where it's all spelled out. By the time you get to this section (nearer to the end), you willl have (hopefully) grasped the terms. If not, there's a glossy and hypertext that will help you here and there.

 

Actually, some verdigris components are organic, i.e. acetate, formate and carbon dioxide.

 

Yes, it will take some effort to read and understand the book. There's no two ways about it. I'm writing it because of a serious dearth of information on verdigris. It's a scientific undertaking, there's no avoiding the correct scientific terms. Like I said, by the time a reader gets to this point in the book, they should have learned the terms.

 

Oh why not. Just to add "fuel" to the fire - liquid lighter fluid (the kind used for zippos) has often been used to remove tape residue from paper money.

How do I know this? Several months back the boss bought a $1000 note with a few taped areas. He made some phone calls and using "zippo fluid" was the common answer to remove it.
Then I got to experiment on it. No pressure only a thousand dollars FACE value! A slow and meticulous process that didn't work all that well. At least I didn't trash it.

Next time he signs a "hold harmless" agreement.

 

I will try that.

 

I presume "carbon dioxide" means carbonate anion.

Also - the acetate and formate anions may have started with organic acids, but now have formed inorganic salts which (as you pointed out) are insoluble with organic solvents.

Also... who can tell us the different types of verdigris ? What is that nasty red stuff ? How can one determine which ones are static and which are still actively growing ? Why do dogs have black lips ?

 

Yes, carbonate salts, carbonate radicals and carbon dioxide gas. Sometimes my brain works faster than my fingers and I may not be exact in my posts. That's why my book is still in draft form and not published. LOL ...but it's getting there!

Remember your chemical equalibriums my friend. It will all become clear for you soon enough. Verdigris is very complicated, there are 21 major components and a lot more minor components.

 

Wasn't seeking anyone's approval Jim. Just trying to put out information that others refuse to (for proprietary reasons I guess). Copper is the most common and hardest metal to deal with, which is why I point out that LF works very well w/no ill effects. (I'm referring to traditional LF like your granddad used to put in his lights..not charcoal fluid.) It urks me when the geniuses dismiss an idea simply because they think they know better. The more I point out when someone's wrong, the more likely that more people
will learn on their own instead of relying on bad information. Besides..people that think they know it all are especially urksome to me.
I take delight in exposing the ego driven hot air.

 

So far, you have done a bang up job of "exposing the ego driven hot air". Besides the chemistry you need to learn, spelling would help.

 

Yes the sub atomic molecular process of applying paint to a wall is always important to see that it looks great. Sorry about the spelling Thurston. I didn't do a breakdown of the english language before I posted, moreover, I spell to suit me.., my mood, maybe laziness..certainly not to please you or anyone else. Urk works great for me. Please pass the grey poupon.