Mystery Byzantines - or Somewhere Else -

One aspect of our hobby that I love is attributing unknown coins, especially Greek bronzes. Sometimes it goes fast - my starting point is the Wildwinds database, followed by two books of Greek bronzes - Lingren III and Lingren European Mints (still looking for an affordable examples of the other Lingren books), and the CNG catalog of the Fried collection of Greek bronzes from the early 2000's. Sometimes it takes a long time - my record is three years. My score is probably close to 95% - maybe one out 20 just cannot be pinned down leaving no choice but an educated guess. These are sitting in a bowl to my left as I write this. I have not given up and remain hopeful that in time I will discover where they were struck - in fact, the number of coins in the bowl fluctuates as the mystery of attribution is solved.

There is one catagory of coins that are sometimes so difficult to attribute that doing it is a chore, but for the most part I enjoy it...for the most part. And I have made mistakes.

All of this is Smithian prologue to the theme of this article. In the late 2000's I was involved in some customs issues on behalf of a friend. Most of the many coins were eventually released, some were later sold, many remain over a decade later. Among these are some that appear to be Byzantine but have defied all efforts at attribution. These are set forth below.



0.60 16mm - if it is Byzantine it is LATE LATE Byzantine



1.04 grams 19mm - also late Byzantine - or from elsewhere - note concave surfaces like last one - a traditional "cup" type flan, but definitely smaller than typical



Finally attributable - Croatian? Silver 18mm 0.60 grams



More silver - 15mm 1.04 grams



Looks more "regular" Byzantine 1.66 grams 21mm



Very crude bronze - 0.78 grams 21mm



More crude bronze - 1.61 grams 25 x 20mm




More of a "normal" Byzantine - 1.75 grams 16mm



0.76 grams 19mm - very very crude



The final one in the group 1.21 grams 20mm

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And that's it - I have been collecting coins long enough to know that finds of extremely rare coins in circumstances like this never happen - my guess is that, aside from the few that are clearly Byzantine, most are from elsewhere. The silver coins may point the way to attribution of most of the rest, although I should add that the liklihood of these being from the same find is low.

In any event, since I enjoy attributing unknown coins I would not typically ask for help. But these, or most of them are weird.

 

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Images are missing

 

fixed it -

 

OJ - all of them are now up -

 

All are now up - any ideas? Sorry I didn't realize that I repeated these

 

No ideas from me… I’m terrible with Byzantine or post-western empire coinage but I like learning so pop into all threads and will be following with interest.

I just wanted to pass a note about the images so you could get some answers!

 

Most of the scyphates are Bulgarian 14th century, the first silver is a grosso of Dubrovnik ca. 1600 or so, the second silver is a Balkan imitation of a Venetian grosso, the tetarteron is probably Alexios I and the "very crude bronze" could be a trachy of Thessalonica, but I'm not certain.

 

Thanks / Bulgarian would make sense since a medieval Bulgarian bronze from the same era was also sent to me as part of the group but since it was attributed I didn’t include it. I saw someone selling a coin from Croatia and it greatly resembled one of the silver coins.

I know so little about coins of this era - I wasn’t even aware that there was an independent Croatian state in the Middle Ages. I did note the resemblance to the Venetian grasso (sp?). I’ll check out Thassolonica.

 

1st
Second Bulgarian Empire: Ivan Aleksandar (1331–1371) Æ Trachy, Cherven (Raduchev & Zhekov 1.13.40)




10th
Second Bulgarian Empire: Ivan Aleksandar (1331–1371) Æ Trachy, Cherven (Raduchev & Zhekov 1.13.44)

 

2nd
Second Bulgarian Empire: Ivan Aleksandar (1331–1371) Æ Trachy, Cherven (Raduchev & Zhekov 1.13.56-9)

 

I'll add more attributions latter, but if you are in a hurry, I might suggest you head over to either:

https://coins.labarum.info/en/catalog for Byzantine Coins and
https://www.wildwinds.com/coins/moushmov/bulgarian.html for the Bulgarian Coins

My daughter just tapped me for some homework help that needs to be done by EOD and if you want to offload some of those, do let me know

 

Thanks so much - I didn’t even think of seeing if Wildwinds had a Bulgarian section.

 

Moushmov is a bit old, so there are coins that you have that might not be there, like the first coin. But, its one of the few free resources that are available online for Bulgarian coins that I know. I am more interested in this one. Quite interesting...

 

Congrats to everyone who got here before I did. (...This is my Friday, and it's Pacific time.) One 'tell' is that the Bulgarian series, especially from the 14th century, is the only one I know of with this kind of triangulation of late Byzantine and Venetian influences. Right, follow the geography.

 

Yes this one is in better condition than some of the others - nice patina too.
Unattributed coins are fun but frustrating and I have previously resisted putting the coins I have up on this site, although, as shown by these coins, it is a terrific resource because the people who are on this site are so knowledgeable. Sometimes a coin I can't attribute I have even sold before such as one with what looks like a portrait of Augustus on one side and even "IMP AVG...." and Greek lettering on the other side with a trident to the left, what looks like a female figure and inverted IMUT ((at least I think Greek lettering) 22mm - I have seen the coin many times in the past but despite going on Wildwinds and searching everything I cannot find it. I thought Bosporus but I think Bosporian (is that the way you say it?) or are all in Greek letters.....maybe Rhoemeltalkes but again Greek letters

 

My inclining was Sicily, but I am not sure. It looks similar to reverse of the coin below. My offer still stands I love trachy-type coins...

 

I can do the easy one.

JOHN II AE HALF TETARTERON S-1954 DOC 16 CLBC 3.4.5
OBV Full length figure of Christ standing on a dais, bearded and nimbate, wearing tunic and kolobion; holds Gospels in l. hand.

REV. Bust of emperor wearing stemma, divitision and chlamys; holds in r. labrum headed scepter and in l. Globus cruciger.

Size 15.59mm

Weight 2.2gm

DOC lists 14 examples with weights from 1.16 gm. to 2.52 and sizes from 15mm to 19mm

 

This is another silver coin which I think is Islamic but it also has Greek lettering, which is bizarre - perhaps early Ottoman, or one of the nearby states - this type is very foreign to me:

 

This is a breathtaking coin, stunning!