MS-69 Coins Before 1950: How Many ?

ANA has technical grading standards and the TPGs have market grading standards or really market valuations. As markets fluctuate, so do the market grades. Really apples to oranges these days and no comparisons except they are both based on the Sheldon scale for long ago. The TPGs deviated from the ANA about 2006 IIRC from some of Doug's previous postings.

 

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2004...he drilled it into me.

 

It'll always blow my mind when a book says its not actually making standards yet people think they are.

 

Easy. You buy the coin and not the number on the little piece of paper inside the plastic thing that also holds the round thing.

Don't buy coins you don't understand.

 

Yeah, but try and buy an MS-66 Saint for MS-64 money because you insist and can prove that it is overgraded.

I doubt the dealer agrees.

 

If it's overpriced to YOU, don't buy it. Let someone else have it.

 

You nailed it. You cant buy things when using your own grading standard that has no baring on the market.

 

I care about the standards. If you don't have standards then you don't have anything to call homebase.
The market try's to call homebase PCGS but PCGS can't even keep up with their submissions?

PCGS doesn't have standards, the standards fluctuate with the market.

You would be surprised at how many collectors use ANA standards,
And we see thru the scheme. Sometime schemes are short lived.
Guess what we are left with?
The ANA standards that you despise.

 

I have the book and I can read. It defines what a grade is. It is a standard. Not like a planchet specification standard, but a standard to grade a coin as circulated or uncirculated based on the presence or absence of wear. That is establishing and describing a metric for comparison.

 

I beg to differ with you as I constantly buy multiple coins of a specific date/mm/TPG having differing grades, where one met my 1977 published standard, purchased immediately at the grade market price.

The other decrepit coin meeting a lesser standard at a higher-grade price, sat on the market "barred" for an extensive period.

I finally offer/purchase at the lower grade price.

This process would show a Jurist that reduced grading standards have a "bearing" on valuation/devaluation, when this process can show to be readily repeated.

There is a scarce date decrepit coin with an elevated grade to several that I own, that has been offered repeatedly by the same prominent Seller.

Over an extended period of time (years), I have offered from a 4 percent discount to a $25 discount, finally offering her full rejected price.

You are correct, reality is that some will not compromise when standards are seemingly reduced, devaluing past "investments".

It's believed, if a court can be readily shown that photograde images are not reflective of the same grade published written standard, that standard may logically be voided.

I believe one can find the written independent explanation of who/when/how the standards were intentionally market devalued for profit, by controlling the major sales outlets.

JMHO

 

Maybe to an extent...but if I don't play by the rules everybody else is playing with, then I don't get to participate by buying (definitely) or selling (probably).

How much stuff will I buy if I go by a rule that says every coin graded by the TPGs is overgraded by 2 turns ?

 

Basically nothing unless the grade doesnt matter in terms of cost. You can be picky and have good taste, but if someone uses wild standards they'll never be able to actually participate in collecting aside from pocket change and bullion

 

BTW....the OP here concerned that MS-69 1908 Wells Fargo Saint-Gaudens "The Best One"...it sold Sunday night for $286,875 (w/bp).

I believe that is 3x what it sold for in the 2005 Morse Auction and about 50% above a sale in the few years, but I'm going off the top of my head.

 

Just shy of 95k in the 2005 auction at Heritage

 

Sigh....I give you accolades for sticktoitiveness.

There should be a PHD Track for Gobbledygobbledness.

 

I might not be able to tell the difference. Thanks for circling those areas, but I honestly can't tell a major difference aside from the blemish/coloring inside the Blue Circles.

Maybe I need to take a grading course.

I looked at the super-closeup and couldn't tell. I must have a mental block or something.

Going by what we know creates "luster" at the microscopic level....all you need is contact between coins in a bag to break the luster.

Well, they must not be graded at the Super Gem level because I haven't seen that many.

That 1908-S MS-68 CAC comes to mind. Maybe other high-graded Saints with a CAC bean meet this standard.

 

GD, those Blue Circles areas...I can clearly see the discoloration (the blackish gold)...are you saying THAT is the wear ? It isn't just normal discoloration ?

You have 2 blue cirlces for high points but also 2 for low points so I'm wondering WHAT could have caused that aside from just moving inside a bag over the decades ?

You think it is bag wear, right ?