TPG Test?

I think if you want to send in a known counterfeit has pitfalls. If you’re trying to prove that TPGs make mistakes, we already know that. As Skip said, a lot of the microwhizzed coins would be a challenge for anybody, and are a nightmare for the hobby. Don’t do it to test the credibility of the TPG. If you want to be useful, and not attempting to prove that you know more than TPGs about skillful counterfeit coins, circulate the list of known counterfeits to TPGs, auction houses, and dealers. Don’t do it as a test of TPG skill. That is a disservice, not an asset to coin collecting.

 

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In the case Jack gave - I disagree. The submitter bought the coin from Stacks with the knowledge it was a struck counterfeit. Then submitted it for authentication and subsequently sold it as original. The TPG should have requested punitive damages from the submitter and pursued criminal charges.

 

I appreciate your opinion @Morgandude11 ; I HAVE published the list and reported to all of the top 4 TPGs and anyone who would listen including the top auction houses, etc as well as written now seemingly countless articles published in more venues than I can count offhand and they still slip through...
Like beating a dead horse (I saw an image of one in another thread...) I continue to try to get the message out.

 

I understand now and see the liability.

 

I started this chain with a list of known counterfeits; I have updated the "list" into one of documented known slabbed counterfeits by (unnamed) TPGs; it is going to be revised with a couple of more additions but here it is (again) as it currently stands:

 

More years ago than I care to count, a friend and fellow coin hobbyist...and maybe some remember him....Guy Whidden, told me one coin that is odd may cause suspicion it is counterfeit, but when 2 show up, it is a market.

 

I consider it like burning down your own house to collect the Insurance. It was not an innocent party relying on the TPG expertise.

 

No way to know what the submitter was thinking (I can't read minds fortunately...); but, the same TPG certifiied several other examples as genuine prior.

Kind of like the "bear in the woods", if enough of the counterfeits are "authenticated" and slabbed by TPGs will they begin to be "genuine"? Sometimes keeps me up at night...

 

Jack D. Young, posted: "..., if enough of the counterfeits are "authenticated" and slabbed by TPGs will they begin to be 'genuine'?"

Exactly. IMO, there are as yet undetected C/S's in slabs (most non-US) that are considered to be genuine. Additionally, in today's world, once one of these fakes that has been traded as genuine is revealed to be a counterfeit, it becomes a collectible (so it may as well be genuine) - often worth more than the genuine example.

 

And with that I will consider this post closed! I appreciate all of the comments and opinions on this topic...

 

But I have to get the last word - there will also be some genuine coin varieties that get designated as counterfeit due to the fact it is unknown and newly discovered.

 

That is known as Making A Market...
(Last Word-sue me)

 

I think it just takes more diligence in authenticating a new variety. The counterfeit 1798 "S-158" was thought a possible new variety until others came to light with the same circulation marks, etc. There were other physical differences when compared to genuine same era coins as well when thoroughly analyzed.

 

IMHO, this is (Self Edit) probably not going to happen.

My beef with a certain top TPGS is that (at least in the past) they would not certify a new discovery coin UNTIL another example turns up. Hopefully, this is no longer the case.

 

Heck, they won't designate anything new (or old) unless they feel like it. I have four discovery coins and three articles to demonstrate that. They're too busy doling out MS70 and special labels to bother with numismatic knowledge.

 

And there are new additions to my list...

 

Recent True Views; all genuine details and the latest "anti-counterfeiting technology" holder and one other thing in common...

 

I wouldn’t mind if you did whatever you liked. Your interesting

 

I have had numerous problems that I have purchased from individuals from whom I have purchased their collections and on several occasions I have encountered coins form a TPG "I Can't Grade", Until recently I carried this coin with me, in the slab it was graded MS62 (1882 CC) I am not the best grader by any means but when I looked at it under a scope and then compared it to several I have, it was at best in the AU range. ( I sold this coin to a friend with the warning of what I thought and he promptly cracked it and put it in his Whitman album). I travel frequently and I take 2 coins with me, 1. 1879 O graded MS64, and 2. 1880 S graded MS66, I have one of each of these coins that are graded by NGC and PCGS and after a comparison neither of the coins hold up with the grade applied. I mention that I carry them with me only to visit coin shops in the area I travel to just to get their opinion, it leads to some very interesting conversations. One dealer in the Lincoln Nebraska area showed me a box of ICG coins he was getting rid of and when I inquired who was going to purchase them he advised me that they would be sold when cracked them and put them in 2x2 flips for his clients trying to fill albums. I do not have a particular TPG I submit to, it depends on current deals offered but there are two I will not submit to under any circustances, and when I encounter these coins I make it clear that If I purchase them it will NOT be for the grade shown on the slab.
I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW EVERYONES FEELING ABOUT THIS. I just want to know if I am out of bounds of if you feel or have had the same experiences.
Looking forward to a great year.
Semper Fi
Stay safe.
Phil

 

These folks are saying they already have them in TPG plastic:

https://www.lifedailyllc.com/

Complete sets, on the cheap!