Yes initial post is a heads up, post #15 and #16 then poses a question which opens it up for debate on legalities, even if the OP doesn't intend to have anything to do with a stolen coin. from that point on it becomes a debate on legalities, moral obligations, yada yada. Also a valid point that PCGS has lost a fair amount of old records, and likely has no idea if it was stolen, or just not activated because they lost the record of it. But from a PR standpoint, much better to claim it's not active because it was reported stolen then to tell people they don't have their act together on the database record keeping. Its not like the person answering the phones or emails at PCGS is some official entity, just some representative for the company running customer service. if you own a coin shop, or any reselling business, a pawn shop, whatever, just eat the losses? you buy auctioned items, just eat the loses again if someone claims an item was stolen at some point from someone with no real evidence of it actually being stolen or owned by anyone else that holds title to it? I get your moral highground "stolen is stolen, no exceptions." "Hey I just saw Dynoking driving my car that was stolen from me. I reported it but it was sooo long ago it doesn't even matter. Gee I hope he doesn't scratch the paint." That's not the situation at all though, the situation is, "hey dynoking bought a car second hand and has a receipt for it, but apparently it was at least reported to the DMV (by what someone answering the phone said at the DMV) that the tag was reported stolen on the car, no idea if it was reported stolen to the police, nobody seems to be actively looking for it, who knows what comes next from it, but Dynoking should give up the car he paid for and holds a receipt for because some customer service representative said so?" That's the situation. I'd agree, I wouldn't want anything to do with something that sketchy, stolen is stolen IF it was actually stolen. However, I see no evidence to back up the validity of the claim PCGS made that it was in fact stolen. Also I find PCGS wanting it sent to them without compensation, so they can return it to the owner to be very suspect also, who knows how many hands it's changed since it was graded, it's not like people dont' report guns stolen, but they were sold to sketchy people that will never put their own name on the firearm. As it relates to Dynokings car he bought, do you give it to the DMV and eat the loss on it on the word of some jabronie that picked up the phone at the DMV? Why can't PCGS be the good Samaritan, call the person that submitted it and find out what the deal is at this point and then relay the message? habe the guy who bought it returns it and give up the auction house or seller to the guy that has his property stolen, and they can recover it? they have no problem being a third party grader, but it's too much work for them to connect people to their stolen coins again after grading, while claiming to help if the coins do get stolen? As said, if it's fishy, I'd pass, I just don't need any hassle in my life no matter how bad I want a coin or an item. But this system is broken to begin with and PCGS's answer is "send it to us and take a loss". Yeah, that will get a coin back to its rightful owner after a theft......
As it relates to Dynokings car he bought, do you give it to the DMV and eat the loss. If you knew it or later found out it was stolen I think you should. How would explain to law enforcement that you continued to own/operate a vehicle you knew/or later found out was stolen? If I could get back to the dealer who sold it Im sure the dealer would refund my money to keep my mouth shut, no? True story from back in the day Some one bought a beautiful Trans Am from a dealer. Several months later NYPD Auto Crime detectives come to his house and questioned him about the sale. The car was stolen and resold as part of an organized operation. He is in the clear as far criminal charges, but the car he financed for $1000's of dollars had to be surrendered to the PD. The poor guy was still responsible to repay the finance company. The victim had every right to request his money back from the dealer (who is now in jail). He would almost assuredly prevail in a court of law but good luck collecting. Would time change the outcome? At what point does the theft and resale of the vehicle become a victimless crime? An insurance compony paid out on the original theft. At what point in time does the insurance Co. lose their claim to the vehicle? Let me summarize. I am so surprised even shocked to read some of the responses and explanations behind them to somehow justify the purchase or possession of a know stolen or at least suspect coin.
And the hits just keep on coming! I don’t remember you so happy and full of… Fun?! Cheer?! It? New meds? Thanks for the grin’s!
Sure, PCGS will take it back for free then resell it or offer it back to the original owner for a nice fat fee. TPG's are exactly that third-place graders never first in my opinion!
That's honestly a good rule. It sucks when people have things stolen but anyone can claim anything was stolen and people have been known to do that to try and get free stuff. There needs to be some sort of process to make sure the claims are valid Wheres any proof it was reported to the police? Yes Dumb comparison. You wouldnt even know it was your car but regardless to compare a car to a 100 dollar coin is just dumb
That's not the situation at all though, the situation is, "hey dynoking bought a car second hand and has a receipt for it, but apparently it was at least reported to the DMV. The DMV gets its info from a national stolen vehicle date base mentioned by the FBI not the victim. (by what someone answering the phone said at the DMV) If you contact the NYS DMV Title Bureau you may receive the information that they have on file. That information comes from a national data base. If you are unsure you should do that before you make the purchase just like the OP did before he made his. that the tag was reported stolen on the car, no idea if it was reported stolen to the police, Again the DMV gets its info from law enforcement. nobody seems to be actively looking for it, True but... who knows what comes next from it, ...wait for it... but Dynoking should give up the car he paid for and holds a receipt for because some customer service representative said so? ... here it is... True! When DK goes to register and title the vehicle at the DMV the transaction will be flagged all paper work submitted including DK's drivers license will not be returned and the issue handed over to law enforcement. Law enforcement who will find DK and his involvement with the procurement of the vehicle. Paying for stolen property does not made you the owner. At that point you are either a victim or an accomplice. DK's actions, inactions, or choices will decide that. As it relates to Dynokings car he bought, do you give it to the DMV and eat the loss on it on the word of some jabronie that picked up the phone at the DMV? If DK already bought it he is stuck with the headache. Demand money from back from seller, turn the matter over to law enforcement, or slap a set of whop tee doo plates and registration sticker on it and hope for the best. During the next traffic stop DK will probably be arrested for possession of stolen vehicle or even theft of vehicle if he doesn't come up with a credible story. Why can't PCGS be the good Samaritan, call the person that submitted it and find out what the deal is at this point and then relay the message? habe the guy who bought it returns it and give up the auction house or seller to the guy that has his property stolen, and they can recover it? they have no problem being a third party grader, but it's too much work for them to connect people to their stolen coins again after grading, while claiming to help if the coins do get stolen? PCGS either states the info is lost or the coin was reported stolen. If the records were lost maybe a refund of grading fee's would be appropriate. If the coin was reported stolen but they can't find the submitter because the records were lost what can they do at that point? Refund the money to the current submitter of the coin? No. Why? Because if the coin does come back they are (possibly) in possession of stolen property. The only thing a publicly traded corporation is turn it over to law enforcement. Bottom line is think something stay away from it. If you decide to use some of the thought processes posted here to provide rational to get involved stolen property be prepared to take a hit when the whip comes down. Claiming stupidity is not going to get you undone. Bold face font used to hi-light my responses, not to be construed as shouting or driving my position home. Have we beaten this dead horse enough? I think so! It's St. Patricks Day! I have corned beef in the pot, Guinness Stout, and Jameson in the ice box. Any one who wants to come to Queens County NY is welcome to stop over and celebrate! PEACE!
I believe some of the early ones got lost during a system upgrade at some point but overall they have it together for the database I wouldnt even say PCGS claimed that, some random customer service person that's probably burned out by now from the countless calls theyve been getting every day for over a year now said that and probably just didnt want to deal with it
Ah, I was waiting for this. Dumb? No what's dumb is the "who says?, who cares?, what does it matter?, it was so long ago", (summarized) responses that imply its ok to get involved in stolen or even possibly stolen property. I lost a lot of respect for you today Mr. B. Good day sir. Who knows it if actually was. Way back it was easier to label one then today. If it really was you’d think from all parties more than just you can send it back or I’ll just return it would have been done. If it’s so long you could never trade it back then it doesn’t matter anymore and it’s just part of the market again From the post looks like they said it was reported stolen long ago from the OPs word. Reported and actually are different things and long ago means what. The requirements for the report in the 90s weren’t as much as now etc. Again if it’s so long ago it doesn’t even matter anymore, you’re not going to be able to trace all its sales back and the original owner may not even be alive. By returning it it’s just going to get resold anyways
You should never buy anything ever again then because it could have possibly been stolen at some point and you should certainly follow your own rules and what you preach about "possibly stolen property". You might especially want to make sure you never eat anything or buy anything that contains limes or avocados as those are largely controlled by drug cartels as just one example. The internet is always a funny place especially forums where people always stand on soap boxes and have morals beyond reproach in their posts but not their daily lives. However that isnt how the world works. The police will spend 0 time on that coin, there's no evidence it was actually stolen, and even if it was stolen decades ago its a done deal at this point.
Simple solution! Take it out of the holder and resubmit it for grading with NGC! Problem solved! If you want a PCGS holder, submit it to PCGS! However, back then, they didn't care about if the coin was cleaned...nowadays this coin would come back with no grade and a remark that it was...CLEANED!
Integrity - is what a person does or conducts themselves when they think nobody is looking or they think they are not going to get caught. You should never buy anything ever again then because it could have possibly been stolen at some point My words were you think it could be was and you should certainly follow your own rules and what you preach about "possibly stolen property". Yes I do follow my own rules. Do have evidence to the contrary? Please point it out. From the post looks like they said it was reported stolen long ago from the OPs word. Reported and actually are different things and long ago means what. The requirements for the report in the 90s weren’t as much as now etc. Again if it’s so long ago it doesn’t even matter anymore, you’re not going to be able to trace all its sales back and the original owner may not even be alive. By returning it it’s just going to get resold anyways However that isnt how the world works. The police will spend 0 time on that coin, there's no evidence it was actually stolen, and even if it was stolen decades ago its a done deal at this point. Your'er repeating yourself. Again. The internet is always a funny place especially forums where people always stand on soap boxes and have morals beyond reproach in their posts but not their daily lives. I agree with your soapbox speil. I set up mine after I was disappointed hearing you on yours... One thing piece of advice that I like to follow, Never argue with a fool. Bystanders may not be able to tell the difference. Have a nice day. Peace!
Integrity - is what a person does or conducts themselves when they think nobody is looking or they think they are not going to get caught. You should never buy anything ever again then because it could have possibly been stolen at some point My words were you think it could be you should certainly follow your own rules and what you preach about "possibly stolen property". Yes I do follow my own rules. Do have evidence to the contrary? Please point it out. From the post looks like they said it was reported stolen long ago from the OPs word. Reported and actually are different things and long ago means what. The requirements for the report in the 90s weren’t as much as now etc. Again if it’s so long ago it doesn’t even matter anymore, you’re not going to be able to trace all its sales back and the original owner may not even be alive. By returning it it’s just going to get resold anyways However that isnt how the world works. The police will spend 0 time on that coin, there's no evidence it was actually stolen, and even if it was stolen decades ago its a done deal at this point. Your'er repeating yourself. Again. The internet is always a funny place especially forums where people always stand on soap boxes and have morals beyond reproach in their posts but not their daily lives. I agree with your soapbox speil. I set up mine after I was disappointed hearing you on yours... One thing piece of advice that I like to follow, Never argue with a fool. Bystanders may not be able to tell the difference. Have a nice day. Peace!
So you dont eat anything that has avocado or lime in it? You purchase nothing from China whose running concentration camps? You require a total provable sales item of everything you purchase? Get off the internet morality box Also learn to quote in responses but go on with your unquestionable morals
When the statute of limitations runs out, the holder of the coin can no longer be prosecuted for the crime of theft, however, if the coin is positively identified as belonging to the victim, the holder of the coin cannot provide clear title, and ownership therefore cannot legally be transferred to another (it cannot legally be sold).
Correct @ToughCOINS ... as far as that statement goes. The serial# on the slab identifies it as stolen. However, if you sell if AFTER being notified it is stolen, doesn't that reset the clock on the lesser crime of trafficking in stolen goods?
