Which state issued first denomination-fixed copper coins

As most of you know emperor Anastasius (491-518) introduced monetary reforms, and it resulted among other that the empire introduced coins with a denomination-fixed copper coins in term of 40 "M", 20 "K", 10 "I" and 5 "E":




I want to ask: Was Byzantine Empire the first state ever that issued a fixed denomination on copper coins?

I hope my text here and question are clear.

Thanks

 

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Rome issued various denominations in bronze that were marked. The semises of Nero marked with an S come to mind.

 

You mean "SC" - That means securitas or something like that, and was meant that Roman Empire guaranteed the coin.

It is not a denomination as far as I know, but others here maybe know better.

 

I don't know, which were the earliest bronze coins, with the denomination marked on the coin.
For many of the early Roman Republic bronze coins, created in the 3rd century BC, each coin had a mark, which indicated its value.

The As had a "1" mark, sometimes on both sides, such as on the following coin. There is a "1" (somewhat obscured) above Janus's head on the obverse, and a "1" above the ship's prow on the reverse. This is my coin, and these are my photos. This coin was minted from 211 BC To 206 BC.

The Semis, which was worth 1/2 of an As, had an "S", sometimes on both sides, such as on the following coin. There is an "S" to the left of Saturn's head on the obverse, and an "S" above the ship's prow on the reverse. This is my coin, but these are the seller photos, not my photos. This coin was minted from 211 BC To 206 BC.

Also in the 3rd century BC, the Triens, which was worth 1/3 of an As, had 4 dots on the coin, because 1/3 of an As was equal to 4 uncia. Here is an example of such a Triens. There are 4 dots above Minerva's head on the obverse, and 4 dots below the ship's prow on the reverse. This is not my coin. The photos are from ACsearch.

Also in the 3rd century BC, the Quadrans, which was worth 1/4 of an As, had 3 dots on the coin, because 1/4 of an As was equal to 3 uncia. Here is an example of such a Quadrans. There are 3 dots to the right of the Hercules's head on the obverse, and 3 dots below the ship's prow on the reverse. This is not my coin. The photos are from ACsearch.

There were also other denominations, for the Roman Republic bronze coins of the 3rd century BC.
The Sextans (1/6 of an As) often had 2 dots on the coin, because a sextans was worth 2 uncia.
The Uncia often had 1 dot on the coin.
There was also a 2 As bronze coin, and a semuncia (1/2 uncia), and maybe even higher denominations of bronze coins (5 As? maybe? I don't remember), but I don't remember, if those coins had their value marked on them.
I'm not an expert in this area. Perhaps other CoinTalkers know of earlier bronze coins, which had the denomination marked on them, and perhaps they know what the earliest exact dates were.

 

Actually, Nero did issue some semisses that were marked with an S as a denomination. The SC that is so common on Roman Imperial bronzes stands for Senatus Consulto, "with the consent of the Senate" as, while the Emperor controlled the gold and silver coinage, the Senate (nominally) controlled the bronze coinage. Bronze coinage in the Republic after the First Punic War had marks of value: I on the As, S on the Semis, four pellets on Triens, three pellets on Quadrans, two pellets on Sextans, and one pellet on the Uncia. That would probably be the earliest marked denomination on a bronze coin series, but I could be wrong.

Edit: And @sand has nicely illustrated the RR denomination series, while I was busy typing...

 

Do you mean marked denomination, or marked value, or either ?

As far as marked values, Licinius I in 321 AD introduced a new denomination, standardized across his mints with a marked value of 12 1/2 DC.



Constantine I in 312-313 AD had issued some special-issue fractions from the mint of Rome with marked values of 16 and 12 DC.

 

Heck, before I opened this up to read it and going strictly by the thread title, I spent a half hour trying to figure which "state" it was...of the first 13...

 

Pretty well from the get go, ancient ae coins had some method of showing value. Many coins in Magna Graecia (Italy and Sicily) used dots to signify the denomination of the coin. This was done as the intrinsic value of the ae was nowhere near that of its stated value.
Himera Hemilitron 415- 409 BC Obv Head of Nymph Himera left. To left row of six dots. Rv. Six dots all within laurel wreath. HGC 479 2.92 grms 15 mm Photo by W. Hansen There are earlier or even larger examples of aes coins with these marks of value, however this is the earliest example that resides in my collection.

 

The Ae coins of Brundisium clearly had an "S" on the obverse (below the head of Neptune) and reverse (behind Phalanthos riding the dolphin) denoting their denomination as a semis. These were issued as early as 209-200 BC.

The initial series from Brundisium dating to 215 BC had pellets denoting value - one pellet for an uncia, two for a biuncia, etc.



However, pellets were commonly used well before this date like @Terence Cheesman suggests (maybe up to 150-200 years prior) in Magna Grecia (Southern Italy and especially Sicily). There is a great site http://www.magnagraecia.nl/coins/ where you can view coinage of Magna Grecia by polis and time period.

Metapontum in particular had a bronze coin it issued from 425-350 BC with the inscription "OBOLOS" clearly on the reverse, denoting an obol denomination (not my coin, although I do have an example):

 

Interesting coins and nice collection.

Byzantine bronze coins and coin weights had the similar marks of value. I have a few of both. The only pair I have is E. I have a K coin and KZ (=27) weight.
M=40
K=20
I=10
E=5



The Byzantine coins were not heavy enough to be bullion value (I think). Italy about 280 BC had bullion value cast bronze coins. Some were issued by the Roman Republic and some by cities under Roman control. The 4 coins below are the same denomination, 2 dots. The left coins are bullion value (over 327 grams per As). The right coins are fiat or fiduciary (1/4 the weight).

 

Many coins were marked in some way. This Nero dupondius is marked in exergue II (asses).


Early silver of Syracuse included fractions like the later Roman bronzes with a system based on twelfths. Two dots was a 2/12 hexas (1/6 litra).


6 dots was 6/12 (hemilitron)


Many provincials had a denomination in assaria. Common is this is E for 5.


More unusual is 1 1/2 assaria (>A)


I do not know who was first and also might ask who first used a word for a denomination along with the number. Some Chinese cash did this as on this Wu Zhu. Wu Zhu literally means "five zhu". It was not the first Chinese coin to do this but I don't know how many there were before that.

 

Please... Check your facts before you start ‘correcting’ folks. If you don’t even know what SC stands for you should do more learning and less ‘teaching’.

 

Agreed w/ @Aleph : S = SEMIS for the Roman Republic

The SEMIS depicted SATURN


RR Anon AE Semis 211-206 BCE Saturn S Prow ROMA Sear 766 Craw 56-3 Spain Punic War


And

AR SESTERTIUS of the ROMAN REPUBLIC

Roman Republic
AR Sestertius
After 211 BCE
12mm 1.0g
Rome mint
Roma right, IIS behind - (denomination of 2 (II) Asses and a Semis - 2-1/2 Asses = 1/4 of a Denarius) (Until approx 140 BCE it was 10 Asses to a Denarius. Later it became 16 Asses to a Denarius)
Dioscuri riding stars in ex ROMA
Sear 46 Craw 44-7 RSC 4

 

Hey Aleph

I apologize if you felt offended. I am surprised by your remarks.

I wrote “…or something like that” implying I was not sure what it meant, and I also wrote that “as far as I know” and that “others here maybe know better” implying again I was not sure and that others might correct me which they did. And maybe I should had put an “?” after “you mean “SC”” to make it even more clear that I was not sure.

Anyway, written language on text is often perceived more tough than verbal language. So perhaps you misunderstood my intentions here.

Also I no longer participate often here as I did earlier due to my wife and a new child, and sporadically I have one question and want answers, create a thread, get the answers, and then disapear for months... until I again have new question.

Anyway. Again, I apologize if you felt offended. That was not my intention.

 

Well, what does SC stand for ?

It must be important to call for such a strident reaction as yours.

Personally, I don't know....and I don't collect ancients, but your response has me curious.

Thank you.

 

Senatus Consulto. "By the authority of the Senate." One of the more common abbreviations one finds on Roman Imperial bronze coins as well as, for example, on the Provincial coins of Antioch. See the explanation at https://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=S C. In other words, it's essentially impossible to collect ancient Roman coins at all without encountering it very early on. So I can understand that it might be surprising that someone who didn't present himself as a neophyte wouldn't know what it means, or have had the curiosity to look it up at some point. Not that that's an excuse for not being nice, but the person who reacted that way thought he was being lectured. Which obviously wasn't intentional.

 

I think the 1st city that issued fixed denominations in bronze is Rome in the 3rd c. BC.
● : uncia
●● : sextans
●●● : quadrans
●●●● : triens
S : semis
I : as
to be continued in silver :
IIS : sestertius
V : quinarius
X : denarius

 

While that is correct, it becomes frustrating when we post and are ignored. I apologize for showing silver answers when the question asked for copper. There are Sicilian Greek AE with dots which we interpret using Greek names like I showed for silver before the third century. I glossed over the metal requirement in the question.



The earliest AE that comes to mind might be the Akragas 'tooth' coins which some of you will deny to be coins since they are not round or early since they are not date marked.


While the above trias is the one seen commonly, I can't pass up the opportunity to show my bit more unusual two dot Akragas hexas which I really do not know whether it predates the silver one from Syracuse.

Dating all this material is often shown using large ranges or centuries and involves varying degrees of evidence versus guessing on the part of those who study them. Can I prove the Greek AE predated the Roman series? You can each research it if you wish but all this 'who was first' business reminds me of the US and Soviet claims of the 1950's and even the 'discovery' of America by Columbus who was greeted by people who did not know they were unknown. For me, my oldest is Akragas but I really have no idea where they got the idea of using dots unless it was from the silver. That brings up the question of whether just having dots is enough to be called 'denomination marked' and just what was meant by any given dot. For example, is this Sybaris silver fraction from the sixth century and does it show denomination dots or just decorative ones? Some here may have an opinion. If denomination, where did Sybaris get the idea?


Did you know that Sybaris before 500BC had a patent law protecting new dishes by cooks? Don't quote me. I have read this but do not know on what evidence that claim is based. Did they invent the concept of intellectual property or did they appropriate it from someone earlier of whom we remain ignorant? Which caveman first cooked his meat? Did he expect all the others to keep eating theirs raw? The study of history, and perhaps the study of anything, is a journey not a destination. About the time you think you 'know' something, the answer changes. Are we all actually entitled to our own set of 'facts'?

 

Is it OK if I borrow that.....and use it as often as warranted?

 

Nice post