Justin I and his magical psychedelic dream coat

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by robinjojo, Feb 11, 2022.

  1. seth77

    seth77 Well-Known Member

    700+ years later at Thessalonica:

    55e5e8f3db19a82c14e095e6cf2a2dc0f2cf7b465b68ec1fbd5d5b5382e4e300.jpg
     
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  3. robinjojo

    robinjojo Well-Known Member

    BenSi, that's a very nice half follis of Anastasius, particularly the obverse!

    Over time and with patience you can find nice examples of folles and half folles of Anastasius, Justin I and Justinian I. In particular, you might take a look a group lots of Byzantine bronzes. Sometimes there are really nice coins that would cost more individually on the retail market.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2022
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  4. Al Kowsky

    Al Kowsky Well-Known Member

    BenSi, Nice score on the 1/2 follis (20 nummi) :happy:!
     
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  5. BenSi

    BenSi Well-Known Member

    Thank You Al.

    Thank You and yes, I love group lots, You never know what you are going to get. Hopefully the content matches the price.

    Sometimes you get car crashes.

    g3.jpg


    Sometimes you strike gold.

    f3.jpg

    I bought a group lot last year and both coins came out of it. I was really surprised with the Anonymous follis, legend seems blurry but the coin is in beautiful condition.

    I do buy individual coins outside my time period but only when they are really eye catching.
    b3.jpg
     
  6. furryfrog02

    furryfrog02 Well-Known Member

    Not gonna lie, I love that car crash!
     
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  7. Voulgaroktonou

    Voulgaroktonou Well-Known Member

    And this I quote from the Oxford Dictionary of Byzantium, on the Toupha:
    Toupha
    (του̑φα, also τουφίον), tuft of hair from exotic animals used to decorate the helmets of cavalrymen and imperial crowns. The Strategikon of Maurice (Strat.Maurik. 1.2.10, 12B.4) refers to small touphai atop helmets; the passage is repeated in the Taktika of Leo VI (6.2). According to Kosmas Indikopleustes (Kosm. Ind. 11.5), officers ornamented their horses and standards with the so-called touphai made from the tail hairs of the Indian yak (agriobous); this toupha remained stiff and did not bend.

    The crown (or helmet?) on the equestrian statue of Justinian I in the Augustaion (P. Lehmann, ArtB 41 [1959] 39.57; cf. C. Mango, ibid. 351–58) was surmounted by a toupha; when it fell off in the 9th C., it was replaced by a daring master roofer (skalotes) who from the roof of Hagia Sophia shot a cord attached to an arrow and then walked along the tightrope to reach the statue; Emp. Theophilos rewarded him with 100 nomismata (Leo Gramm. 227.3–11). Clavijo (ed. Lopez Estrada 44.19–20) described the toupha on this statue as so big it resembled a peacock's tail.

    The term was subsequently extended to denote the headgear itself: thus Constantine VII (De cer. 188.10) equated touphai with tiaras, as did Tzetzes (Hist. 8.297–301), adding that this kind of typha surmounted the equestrian statue of Justinian. A 12th-C. historian (Zon. 3:566.16–567.2) says that toupha was a vernacular word for tiara; he derives it from the verb typhoomai, meaning “to be filled with insane arrogance.”
     
  8. furryfrog02

    furryfrog02 Well-Known Member

    I would REALLY love to see one of these.
     
  9. robinjojo

    robinjojo Well-Known Member

    I like 'em all! The first coin, of Heraclius, is a typical overstrike, but it has his legend on the obverse, the year (seems to be 3), Officina (appears to be B) and mint on the reverse - very respectable for this very crude type.

    That coin shares some of the came characteristics of another Heraclius follis that came out of group lot in 2020.

    Here, we have a coin that has a rotated strike on the obverse and reverse, plus what seems to be an overstrike of a follis of Phocas. You can see arm and hand holding an orb. I guessing that the arm belongs to Phocas, but it could also be Maurice Tiberius.

    D-Camera Phocas Follis, double struck, Roma,, 6-24-20.jpg
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2022
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  10. BenSi

    BenSi Well-Known Member

    That is a beautiful example Seth, better than most at that time.
     
  11. Quant.Geek

    Quant.Geek Well-Known Member

    Toupha!!!!!! There are numerous variations of the toupha and the standard on Theophilus' follis, if you can indeed find them all:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  12. robinjojo

    robinjojo Well-Known Member

    I thought I'd add one my Constantine IV (668-685 AD) folles.

    Here he is wearing quite an ornate robe, quite different from how he is depicted in his gold coinage, where he wears more cuirassed military garb.

    16.41 grams

    D-Camera Constantine IV Follis, 668-685 AD, 16.41 grams, Berk purchase  6-6-20.jpg
     
  13. Quant.Geek

    Quant.Geek Well-Known Member

    @robinjojo IMHO, the coin might not be genuine, unfortunately...
     
  14. robinjojo

    robinjojo Well-Known Member

    What makes you think it is a fake?

    The Constantine IV follis is from Harlan Berk, so I am sure they will honor a return, even though it has been over twenty years ago. The surfaces are granular in places, which I think could be die rust, and there are the usual deposits and some minor corrosion, but I don't see any signs of casting.

    I've handled enough Byzantine bronzes, and spotted this well-known fake in a group lot last year:

    D-Camera Justinian I follis fake year 12 con 15.2g roma 88 group lot 9-21-21.jpg
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2022
  15. Quant.Geek

    Quant.Geek Well-Known Member

    I seem to remember seeing the same strike/same granular type coin multiple times. I'll follow-up with some pictures, if I can find the source...
     
  16. robinjojo

    robinjojo Well-Known Member

    I have seen similar coins, but not frequently, of this type. Just browsing online I've come across a few:

    VCoins:

    [​IMG]

    CNG:

    [​IMG]


    CBG Numismatics:

    Constantine IV follis, c. 674-681AD cbg France 16.74g 2-21-22.jpg


    Goldberg Coins:

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    I'd say that the first example, VCoins and the last example, Goldberg, are the closest to the follis I have. They certainly share many characteristics and in fact might be die matches for the obverse and reverse. However, they are not identical, and that would be the primary warning flag for me regarding a fake.

    My coin is somewhat low in weight, at 16.41 grams. The Goldberg coin weighs 18.53 grams, while the VCoins follis weighs 16.89 grams. However, it has been my experience that the weight range for coins of this period can vary. Additionally, my coin has been cleaned at one point, revealing some minor corrosion that probably account for the coin's weight.

    While we're on the subject of this thread, the coins in the post show the interesting variations of clothing worn by Constantine IV, with ornate embellishments from coin to coin.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2022
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