Why did the 2021 D shoot up so high in value?

I know I like that they did those and I wish they did it more. Especially for people paying almost $100 for a coin. At least give them the hope of something extra special.

There are others things they could do but it would cost money. But the Mint is charging $90 for an ounce of silver so they can afford to do it.

For example with the 2021 Morgans. Not only could they do the randomly signed COAs but they could have minted the first ones in Proof and I doubt it would be prohibitively expensive to do.

Isn’t a proof coin just a coin struck extra hard with polished planchets and dies? Sure it may cost them some money but they’d still make an enviable profit.

Imagine as a collector you open the case expecting to see the normal BU coin but instead you see the mirror like surfaces of a Proof coin and you know you are one of the few to get a rare and unique version.

Then you open the COA and see a handsigned signature of the engraver in red marker along with “023/500” and you know you got the 23rd coin struck of the 500 proofs.

With a mintage of 175,000 for each Morgan they could’ve minted 500 proofs of each mintmark and ensured that they did NOT go to big retailers like APMEX & JM Bullion but rather to individual collectors.

Some people may say “500? Who cares? That only benefits a few people not the majority.”

To that I would reply that the chance of receiving a Proof coin is something every buyer gets. Even if they don’t actually get it at least they get the hope and chance for one. They have the same chance as everyone else and that chance of getting something special alone is something pretty cool.

 

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Yeah it is! I felt so stupid paying more for the FS designation than I did for the actual grading cost.

I paid more than double what I would have!

But I knew I was re-selling and without the FS I wouldn’t get nearly as much.

 

The FS designation appears to be one premium item that does fade fast. The value of the coin...the grade....those hold up better.

But folks are recognizing the FS gimmick. Certainly the case with the 1995-W ASE.

 

Well I mean sometimes it does make sense for coins that are sold over a period of time.

But all the 2021 Morgans were sold in an hour and they all shipped out within 30 days of the first shipment so they are ALL First Strike coins.

A lot of coins it does make sense because they weren’t all sold immediately or received within 30 days of first release like the 2021 Morgans were.

 

I liked they did it too. That said they can’t do it for everything or it loses its significance. I do which they numbered all the COAs and then like once or twice a year pick something special to mix in signatures as well.

That wouid require its own die which would be expensive, but would need to be announced before hand. Realistically the majority of people would probably just sell something like that for huge money and then buy what they originally intended too. That’s what I’d do anyways as I don’t really like ultra modern proofs, they’re too proofy where the tiniest thing slaps you in the face at it’s fault

 

It doesn’t. The FS still sell for more on the whole overtime.

There are no 95-W first strike coins. Folks know exactly what the fs and fdoi labels represent and they are almost always more attractive labels. This is a coin forum thing once again where because people like something posters don’t they must be stupid or not know what they’re doing

 

Marketing bunkum.

If the mint only used ONE die, first strikes would mean something. But they use hundreds of CNC cut dies, all identical.

If the mint sequenced the flow from first to last, first strikes could mean something. But they don't. The coins get palletized (likely but unprovable earlier coins on the bottom) and sent to the fulfillment contractor (sequence of pallets potentially randomized), pulled off the pallets top to bottom and sent to customers.

So it's truly a meaningless designation.

 

I have a proof Somali elephant coin and it’s numbered and so I think even if it requires new machinery it would be better if the Mint issued numbered COAs for limited mintage commemorative coins.

The Mint makes over 100% profit from most of the stuff they sell so they could definitely afford to put more into what they sell.

Also have you seen the Mint cases the 2021 Morgans came in? It feels so flimsy and low quality compared to the old school proof ASE cases.

Yet they charged $89.95 for each Morgan. There was only about $20 worth of silver in each of them so $69.95 profit off each sale and they can’t provide high quality OGP?

You should see how Australia does it!
I am always in awe when I buy Perth Mint stuff because of the very high quality OGP they use.

Idk I feel like the Mint needs to start providing more substance to customers.

 

I thought there was, but if not, I stand corrected.

I remember the coin sold for about $86,000 or so and then a few years later comps were about $20,000 or so.

 

Eh I disagree with them that it would lose significance. As long as it was very limited in number and the COAs were hand-signed.

It’s true most people would sell them at a high price but that’s not necessarily a bad thing. It’s one of those rare special moments when a collector can sell a coin for much more than they buy it for.

& That would probably the only time they were the lucky Mint buyer so it wouldn’t be something that would likely happen again to that person.

 

Numbering a COA is very easy. It’s just an extra line of type printed on it. You don’t need a new machine for that and they don’t make those anyways they’re outsourced

Given that the majority of the cases end up in landfills it’s good they’re cutting back on it. It’s just a waste. Most people either get them graded or put it in an album.

That’s not how profit works. It’s not simple price minus cost of the material. You have employees, design, machinery, maintenance, janitors, support staff, distribution etc etc. They didn’t make an actual profit of 69.95 on any of them.

 

I was just talking about gross profit. Net profit is where all that stuff is deducted.

But even with their expenses they still make a small fortune every year.

As to the cases..they need to step something up. I’m saying they shouldn’t just skimp on the cases and then just pocket all the savings without adding any value to the consumer.

Another idea I had was adding something in addition to the coin in a few hundred or thousand lucky buyers.

Maybe it could be a small “bonus” coin/medallion of some type or anything really.

Basically my argument is that they need to add value to the products they are selling OR reduce their prices when they make cutbacks (as with the cases). They shouldn’t make cutbacks in quality and charge the same when they’re already not a great value in the first place.

 

There are for the 95 bullion coins from sealed monster boxes submitted later but there’s no FS for the proof W.

https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1995-w-1-silver-eagle-dcam/9887

There’s a bunch of different signature labels if you look in the varieties but no ones appeared with an unopened box that would qualify for FS. It’s highly unlikely anyone will either as that set at the time was bought for the gold and the ASE was an after thought hence the lack of them and the bad grades.

The 86k was a huge outlier. It was way way over other sales. There’s a couple that a significantly over the others but the 86k is by no means a legitimate bench mark measure for its price performance.

 

Agreed, I'm going by memory from a few years ago but I recall a bunch of sales in the $30K and $40K both on the way UP and on the way DOWN.

Last I checked the PF70 DCAM's were in the $20K range.

 

Actual profit is all that matters at the end of the day

Which they should and are required too. Any numismatic product that loses money should be canceled immediately.

I know I'm not alone in this but if anything they need to keep the cases as cheap and small as possible. It gets old putting out massive trash can after trash can of mint packaging that I have no use for and no one wants.

I'd rather just get the coin and a COA and have no packaging at all

You mention Australia a lot (which I am very familiar with) the US mints prices are significantly cheaper than their prices. In fact the US mint is significantly cheaper than all of the major world mints. Go look at the Royal mints prices, or France etc and those Morgans wouldnt have been 90 dollars they would have been around 150.

 

It wasnt a bunch it was a couple and it was on the way down after that out of no where spike

https://www.pcgs.com/auctionprices/details/1995-w-silver-eagle-pr-1/9887

For whatever reason that one coin in March of 2013 went ballistic and then even before the year was over 30k+ drop, then a couple more around there and within about a year prices had settled back to what they were and probably should have been all along

 

The 2021-D's did not do so well in grade. I sent in 6 and 5 were graded MS-69 and one was even graded MS-68. Of the 34 (5 CC, 5 O, 6 each of the P, D, S, and PD) only 20 were graded MS-70. All six of the 2021-S came back as MS-70. Four of the 2021-CC came back MS-70, only 2 of the 2021-O came back MS-70. Four each of the 2021-P and 2021 Peace dollars came back as MS-70.

Don

 

I had better luck with the D’s than the Peace Dollars when it comes to grades.

I sent 3x full sets into PCGS and I got 2x MS70 D Morgans of 3 submitted.

But only 1 of 3 Peace Dollars got the 70.

All of my CCs, P and S got 70.
2 of 3 O were 70 and 1 was 69.

Fortunately nothing was 68 or below.

 

...and Mr. Icahn reminded McDonalds who he is, this morning.

I think Mr. Icahn may be positioning himself to buy a lot of Saints-High End, of course. I emailed Legend to alert them.

 

I personally think he's nuts for worrying about that and as someone concerned only about the return on his investment, a bit hypocritical.

I know nothing about Icahn being a coin or Saint collector. Is he a collector ? I've never seen or heard about that being the case and doubt he picked up the bug in his 80's....but who knows.