First 2022 Ancient Purchase- Julia Domna

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Joshua Lemons, Feb 12, 2022.

  1. Joshua Lemons

    Joshua Lemons Well-Known Member Supporter

    I purchased this denarius because I really liked the portrait. My question is it was listed as weighing 3.26g, but as RIC# 565. That would make it extremely overweight. But RIC# 564 looks the same and the weight is within the tolerances from the reference I used. So, could it just be an error in the listing? The coin in question also measures 18mm x 19mm. Either way, I really love the coin, it looks beautiful in hand and I hope you all do too! I've also been working on my photography as promised!
    Polish_20220212_111651301.jpg Polish_20220212_111725572.jpg
     
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  3. ambr0zie

    ambr0zie Dacian Taraboste

  4. Orielensis

    Orielensis Well-Known Member

    As @ambr0zie said, your coin is in the normal weight range for a Severan denarius. The different RIC numbers have nothing do do with weight. My example of RIC 564 weighs 3.19g and thus is very close to yours:

    Rom – Julia Domna, Denar, Kybele, Mater Deum.png
    Julia Domna, Roman Empire, AR denarius, 196–211 AD, Rome mint. Obv: IVLIA AVGVSTA, bust of Julia Domna, hair waved and coiled at back, draped, r. Rev: MATER DEVM, Cybele, turreted, draped, seated l. on throne, holding branch in extended r. hand and sceptre in l. hand, resting left arm on drum set on l. knee; to either side of throne, lion. 19mm, 3.19g. Ref: RIC IV Septimius Severus 564.
     
  5. Joshua Lemons

    Joshua Lemons Well-Known Member Supporter

    It was sold to me as 565, but I'm not too worried about that cause I really like the coin either way. I'm still trying to navigate online sites for ancients so when I have questions, I feel like the CT ancients forum is my best bet. I do know one thing with ancients it's all in the details! I'm still new to ancients and still learning! Thank you.
     
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  6. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

    My example (not a particularly nice one) is only 3.02 g.

    Julia Domna (wife of Septimius Severus), AR Denarius 198 AD, Rome Mint. Obv. Bust right, draped, IVLIA AVGUSTA/ Rev: Cybele towered, enthroned left between two lions, leaning on drum and holding branch & scepter, MATER DEVM. RIC IV-1 564, RSC III 123, Sear RCV II 6561. 19mm., 3.02 g.

    Julia Domna - Mater Devm - Cybele - jpg version.jpg
     
  7. Ricardo123

    Ricardo123 Well-Known Member

    My only Domna from provincial Antiochia;

    7B840E24-672C-4B1B-9B37-9464C29E4BB6.jpeg
     
  8. ambr0zie

    ambr0zie Dacian Taraboste

    @Joshua Lemons, my advice is to cross check all the coins you screen or buy and make sure the references provided are correct.
    There are some members here who only assign catalog references to their coins after they check the books in hand and make sure the attribution is correct. I don't have this possibility, for example, for Greek coins and when I catalog my coins I copy the descriptions found on the web, but I try to make sure I find the same catalog reference in different sources online (other similar coins sold in other auctions). This is still not perfect, as if there is an incorrect description and other people copied it, I will copy it as well.

    But for Roman Imperial coins OCRE is very useful and the difference between 564 and 565 is clear. Bottom line, I don't rely on dealers/houses for a correct attribution (especially since I don't buy from major houses) as sometimes from hurry they might make even bigger mistakes.
     
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  9. Shea19

    Shea19 Well-Known Member

    Very nice new pickup! Here is a Domna MATRI DEVM denarius with a Cybele standing reverse. I like that Julia has a bit of a scowl in the portrait.

    8BC5853C-67C9-4E69-BBA6-E8C4CCE1E75F.jpeg

    Julia Domna, AR Denarius, (19mm, 3.73g), IVLIA PIA FELIX AVG Bare and draped bust of Julia Domna to right; hair waved vertically and fastened in large bun on back; six ridges./ Rev. MATRI – DEVM Cybele, towered, draped, standing front, head left, holding drum in right hand and sceptre, nearly vertical, in left, legs crossed, resting left elbow on column; at feet, lion seated left. RIC 382
     
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  10. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    I don't have the denarius without scepter but here is the sestertius.
    rl6270bb0524.jpg
     
  11. ambr0zie

    ambr0zie Dacian Taraboste

    Here is a Julia Domna denarius (condition is not the main reason I like a coin), one of my favorites, also because of the propaganda
    upload_2022-2-12_21-53-7.png

    Denarius AR
    18 mm, 2,68 g
    RIC IV Caracalla 381 (denarius)
    Date: AD 211
    Obv: IVLIA PIA FELIX AVG, Bust of Julia Domna, hair elaborately waved in ridges and turned up low at the back, draped, right / Rev: MAT AVGG MAT SEN M PATR, Julia Domna, draped, seated left, holding branch in extended right hand and sceptre in left hand

    So mother of the Augustii (plural), mother of the Senate, mother of the people.
    Can't ask for much more.

    But what I insist on - on this one even RIC has an incomplete/inaccurate dating.
    It is listed as 211-217 AD but since Julia Domna was the mother of "Augustii", this means Geta was still alive. So this coin is minted in 211.
    This is why you need to be as careful as you can when attributing your coins - one of the CT colleagues spotted this situation on my coin.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2022
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  12. Joshua Lemons

    Joshua Lemons Well-Known Member Supporter

    Quite a clear difference, isn't it?
     
  13. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Well-Known Member

    The coins with and without the scepter were two separate issues and not an engraver's error. I have one of each and have previously written about the issue of the scepter.

    Domna MATER DEVM no scepter denarius 2.jpg
    Julia Domna, AD 193-211.
    Roman AR denarius, 2.84 gm, 17.5 mm, 6 h.
    Rome, AD 198, issue 1.
    Obv: IVLIA AVGVSTA, bare-headed and draped bust, right.
    Rev: MATER DEVM, Cybele enthroned left, flanked by two lions, holding branch and resting elbow on drum; no scepter.
    Refs: RIC 565; BMCRE 54-55; RCV --; RSC 126a; Hill 340; CRE --.

    [​IMG]
    Julia Domna, AD 193-211.
    Roman AR denarius, 3.41 gm, 18.5 mm, 11 h.
    Rome, AD 200, issue 9.
    Obv: IVLIA AVGVSTA, bare-headed and draped bust, right
    Rev: MATER DEVM, Cybele enthroned left, flanked by two lions, holding a branch and scepter, resting elbow on drum.
    Refs: RIC 564; BMCRE 51-53; RCV 6593; Cohen/RSC 123; Hill 344A; CRE 306.
     
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  14. Joshua Lemons

    Joshua Lemons Well-Known Member Supporter

    Thanks for the link. I was wondering about the rarity of the issues as well, so it looks like the without scepter issue is the rarity.
     
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  15. Marsyas Mike

    Marsyas Mike Well-Known Member

    Nice denarius @Joshua Lemons - I don't have the silver, but here's another sestertius of the type, more worn than Doug's:

    Julia Domna - Sestertius Cybele Jun 2021 (0red2).jpg
    Julia Domna Æ Sestertius
    (c. 196-211 A.D.)
    Rome Mint

    [IV]LIA AVG[VSTA], draped bust right, hair in bun behind / [MAT]ER [DEVM], S-C, Cybele seated left, between two lions, holding branch and resting arm on drum.
    RIC 859; BMC 772
    (26.92 grams / 29 x 27 mm)
    eBay June 2021
     
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