CAC Opinions Please.....

As a new collector/member of CAC I sent my first submissions this morning. Initially I want to learn the parameters for their "sticker" qualifications so I included a wide variety of high/low coins within a few grades MS64,65,66 and 67.
The questions I have for all you out there is the effects of CAC in leveling the valuations of PCGS vs NGC. Does your opinion change when you see the sticker on a slab? In your mind does the value of a coin increase with the "little green sticker"?
Any other comments and critisms would be quite welcome.

 

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That sticker means nothing to me. if i like the coin i'm buying it. its the same principal as buy the coin not the holder, just now it's but the coin not that little sticker lol

 

Not being a slab lover, at coin shows I always ask if the price is for the slab or just for the coin. Some dealers say they must charge extra pending a slab, the nave of the TPGS, etc. Usually if the prices are inflated due to these, I just walk away. Regardless of the name of the TPGS or who said what or whatever is on the slab, makes little difference for me since if I do purchase such a coin, I break it out as soon as I get home.

 

The initial slabbing helps to stabilize a selling ( or value) price, as many collectors and investors can not readily grade the borderlines such as between AU58 and MS63, and the individual steps upward, and most of the cost of the slabbing can be recovered if the coin is valued raw at $100 or more. But everyone who has looked at slabs of a certain coin graded by the same TPG , realizes that not all of them are equal. If they have the grading, marketing experience, they do not need CAC or similar services to detect the high end one. Investors and flippers who would hope to return it for an higher initial slab grade, would be very influenced by a CAC type of sticker. Since few coins submitted are CAC-ed, the submitter themselves have to have the ability to know which ones will be stickered, or they will lose financially. CAC stickered coins in auctions seem to go at a higher price (notice how some of the coin world ads for auctions feature the CAC-ed coins). But like most collectors, I still follow the adage of know your coin,know your grading, and know your limitations.

As far as NGC vs. PCGS, I feel they are very close for most coins. In MS Lincolns cents which I have most experience, in my personal opinion, NGC gives about 1 point higher grade than PCGS, but mostly this is figured in as a NGC+1 grade is close to the PCGS grade.

If by chance I had 2 identical slabbed coins in hand , and they were identical to my observation, graded the same by the same TPG, worth over $100, maybe a good resell, and one has the CAC bean and the other didn't, I might pay $10 more for it as someone who can't grade might feel the "security" was worth it and it would sell easier. AIMO.

Welcome to the Forum!

Jim

 

Yes, It does!! The grading company matters!! PCGS slabbed items always
Bring a premium in the coin market over any other company including
NGC for the same item, Any others would be less then that

On the currency side PCGS and PMG anyothers forget about it!!

 

I couldn't care less about a third party's opinion of another third party's opinion.

I buy slabbed coins, I buy raw coins.

I don't pay extra for slabs over raw. I don't have any CAC-stickered coins. The sticker wouldn't keep me away from buying, but wouldn't offer any additional cachet either. I wouldn't pay more for it, just because of a sticker.

 

CAC received my first submission Monday. CAC is another opinion on the coin. The graders had their opinion, I have mine, and CAC provided theirs. They have a three to five day turnaround once your coins arrived. CAC will purchase a CAC stickered coin. I had a 21 Peace $1 in NGC 64 (CAC) that they paid me what I had in the coin.

I will post my results when I get them.

 

From the CAC website:

"For many years, coin dealers and advanced collectors have used the letters A, B, and C among themselves to further describe coins. C indicates low-end for the grade, B indicates solid for the grade, and A indicates high-end. CAC will only award stickers to coins in the A or B category. C coins, although accurately graded, will be returned without a CAC sticker"

Based on the above, CAC doesn't mean a great deal to me and it really shouldn't matter too much to most once people really understand what that sticker means. Based on their own website, CAC actually stickers quite a bit of coins if they actually do as they say they do. A CAC sticker basically means that the particular coin is in the top 2/3's of all coins for that particular grade (an A or a B coin for the grade, but not a C coin). Accordingly, in the long run we can expect that 2/3 of all coins in PCGS and NGC holders to end up with CAC stickers... CAC stickers don't mean that a coins is PQ or special... just that the grade is accurate and not in the very bottom end for the grade. CAC stickers may seem special now since not that many coins have been submitted for stickering compared to the number of slabs out there, but that perceived rarity can't last forever if CAC really does sticker 2/3's of the coins they see.

I could see how CAC may assist those that buy coins sight unseen, but since I don't do that it doesn't really help me out that much.

 

No my opinion does not change because of the CAC sticker. The issue I have is that some sellers think this CAC sticker should bring a major premiums. I do think some of the nicer ones should bring a premium because of the eye appeal but not all of them. My opinion is the coin will speak for itself.

 

I don't think I would agree that PCGS always brings a premium over NGC...but for some reason they do tend to.

 

Yep that is true - and you can score some really nice coins for very reasonable prices in NGC slabs. The same can be said for ANACs, just have to be more careful.

 

CAC, ABC and jimmie cracked corn, it don't mean a thing to me.
All it tells me is someone has spent a total of about $75 to $125 dollars getting the thing slabbed, mailed, ins., time spent, retuned, resubmitted and god only knows what else to get all these third party designations. I'd just as soon bark at the moon than try and understand why "most" coins need such double grading and opinions on top of opinions.
I shutter to think what's next in the ever increasing market of paying others to do what people can (and have done in the past) for themselves.

I guess in high-end market coins maybe 1 out of 100 really rare or high grade classic coins could somehow benefit and give added assurance for the owner, seller or more particularly an investor but again, this can be done by other methods and means but "to each to his own".
Now I have nore of the coins that would ever need to be in such a holder, nor would I want them to if I had them but, I do not spend much time looking at plastic, stickers, ribbons, first strike designations, and holograms. I thought it was about the coin whether in a 2x2, a filp, a envelope or anything else.

But more to the point of your question I'll give this answer:
My first choice would be PCGS with CAC.
2nd would be NGC with CAC.
Third choice PCGS without CAC.
4th NGC without CAC.

 

.....ah, yes, the CAC sticker. just another opinion of an opinion. in the future these slabs

will have to be much much larger because they'll need the extra size to accommodate the

other 'stickers' that approve the previous stickers! my! my! can you just imagine the size

of the album for these??

 

Interesting my would be - "The coin" and "then The end". I think you mentioned it before this.:mouth:

 

I hate the idea of CAC, and third party grading in general. The initial idea was to be able to buy coins sight-unseen.

Unfortunately that idea went by the wayside and what instead has happened is that collectors (in general) have had the incentive for them to learn to grade coins on their own removed.

They don't need to worry about grading coins because nobody cares what they grade them anyway when it comes time to sell. The buyer is unable to determine what grade the coin is without someone else doing the work for them. What buyers care about is what the TPG graded them, and as the TPGs can be (and at times are) inaccurate, not so much what grade the coin actually is. This is NOT sight-unseen dealing.

It used to be that when a person desired to purchase a coin that they study and learn what they are looking at so that they can discern between the wheat and the chaff. Now, buyers need not be knowledgeable they can depend on the TPGs to guarantee the grade for them.

Great idea, right??? No. Because now what the next logical progression has become is a TPG (CAC) to grade the TPGs. Now not only to we not know how to grade a coin, but we have to have CAC tell us whether it is high-end for the grade, typical of the grade or substandard for the grade.

Is this doing the hobby a bigger service or disservice?

I am with borgovan in that although I owned some raw coins and I own some slabbed coins, I have never bought any of them for the TPGs opinion of grade. My suggestion is that we encourage people to become more knowledgeable about coins, minting and the grading process so that they can again learn to do it for themselves.

I think what the TPGs have done most for the hobby is to bring in investors who eventually are going to lose on all of the over-hyped MS-69 and 70 coins that they pay these huge premiums for and will eventually leave the hobby. Maybe then it can be a hobby again and become an enjoyment and pursuit of knowledge rather than always "What is this coin worth?"

 

....well said, mikenoodle. :smile

 

It may help the seller get a bit more out of a coin a buyer can't see in hand, but I think the big winner is CAC, they are raking it in because people are afraid to grade for themselves.
If 11 unc grades weren't enough, now we have to break the grading down even further.
To me it's nuts.

 

I don't have a strong opinion either way.

I have noticed that, as I look for coins, the ones I really, really like are likely to have a CAC sticker. I wasn't shopping for the sticker; it was just there. I have seen many wonderful coins with CAC stickers.

 

I'm not sure that CAC is "raking it in". Last I heard submission fee was $10. They have a much, much lower volume than the big TPGs.

I assure you The Playahs at CAC do quite well for themselves without their CAC revenue.

 

It's easy to see why the idea of TPGs in general sometimes comes up whenever CAC is discussed.

They have a common thread - TPG grades and CAC stickers are expert opinions tightly coupled with the coin. Why is that a bad thing ?

If I were buying a valuable coin and could have an expert opinion before buying, I would certainly solicit it. For instance, consider being at a show and spotting a spendy coin you really like. Also at that show is someone who has much expertise in that area. Would you ask their opinion ?

That's what TPGs grades and CAC stickers are - an expert opinion.

Listening to an expert opinion doesn't mean you're letting them make the decision for you; it just means you funnel in their expertise as one of many factors when you make the call for yourself.