Can anyone here afford submitting to NGC?

It's the cost of playing the game...like the lottery....if you don't play, you can't win. When it comes to coins, SOMETIMES you NEED them slabbed, regardless of what you know or don't. The stigma that is attached to raw coins is harsh, but it does have a valid point...most of the time raw coins aren't in a slab because they can't get into one.

Specialty collectors...such as VAMMERS, need them properly attributed. Myself, I need some of what I collect graded, and once you NEED them graded, WHO grades them is just as important. In my case, Washington Type B's. If I can rip a '56 Type B in a SGS MS70 slab for $50 (I brought this up in the SGS thread), and pay $50 for PCGS to attribute it MS65, I can turn a coin that I am into for $100, into a $300 coin. That math works for me.

I COULD pay less and have ANACS slab it, but it ISN'T going to be a $300 coin. It's common knowledge PCGS brings the top prices, so, sure, they charge more. But, in the long run, you are better off. I don't 'invest' in coins, I collect them, but there WILL come a time that they will NEED to be sold, for one reason or another, and I want the maximum return.

When it comes to non-specific coins (coins that don't need special attributions), as long as it's graded by one of the top 3, your coins are valued properly, more or less (here again, WHO graded them can dictate what your coins will eventually fetch) . When it comes time to re-sell (you can't take 'em with you), your coins will realize their maximum if they are slabbed by a top tier TPG, with proper instruction as to how/where to dispose of them, as most coins fall into the hands of non-collecting family members, who could get burned badly.

Sure, it's costly, but it's better to have them slabbed then having your coins bring fractions of what they are actually worth. We ALL know a raw MS63 coin is going to be an AU slider coin to a dealer. In that TPG plastic, there are no arguments. The dealer buying that raw MS63 for AU money, he WILL have it graded MS63 (why?...to maximize the coins value). Even for those that can grade properly and feel comfortable buying raw coins, there WILL come that time there will be a need for them to be graded.

 

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I dont believe that the new collectors are

"lazy"

or that

"they have done harm to the hobby in that they have made it easy for lazy collectors to get coins in the grade they want"

Who here over say 40 didn't have to learn the hard way and buy some quote MS coins that when they were more educated were AU's. Or some nice coins that after more coin experience you learned that they were cleaned. We're we "lazy" then...I think not. I think we were just learning the ropes and getting our knowledge in the hobby.
But what they have done is make those nocks and bruises less with the newbies able to buy TPG'ed coins and not get burned so much. Will the TPG'ers make mistakes...sure but not as much as some dealers would when trying to sell their stuff for a better grade then they were.
Just my opinions here though.

 

TPG is simply a service which has to recover it's costs and it does have to add value. All you really have to determine is where the break even point is between the two.

For most modern coins, I don't see the TPG adding enough value to justify the service. But this is just my opinion from the point of view of a collector of 18th and 19th century coins.

Now when you get into the area of more valuable coins where the difference in grade will be hundreds or even thousands of dollars, it makes sense to have a third party (favoring neither buyer nor seller) assist with determining a proper grade and authenticity.

As much as I try to avoid it as a seasoned collector, I still suffer from the ownership upgrade where the coin I have is always better than the coin YOU have, even if it's the same coin. A third party helps.

Now if you are certain that your opinion is better than the unbiased third party, then the service isn't worth it to you unless your buyer isn't as impressed with your opinion as you are.

Once again, the service isn't for everyone, but it's a nice OPTION to have.

Now for a brief adventure into modern coinage. I have to say that recent examples of rolled coins from the mint lead me to believe that very few production coins actually start out anywhere close to MS69 or MS70. The product is horrible because of the severe handling associated with the high speed coining processes today. The typical coin straight out of the Dollar Rolls from the mint look no better than about MS63 to me with contact marks galore and several dings on almost every planchet.

Now the collectors sets are a different story. They have improved the process to the point that they ARE almost universally P69s and P70s. Bravo and Brava to the modern collector production. The real benefit to collectors is that they come from the mint SLABBED so no TPG is required.

That's my opinion for what it's worth.

 

He probably means "holdered".....

 

Yea he's just saying that a proof set comes in it's own plastic holder so as to keep the hits off of the coins and keep the value up.


And I agree TPG'ers aren't for every one or every coin. I was just saying they did not ruin the coin industry and totally agree that if you dont like them just dont use them

 

Yep, there sure are costs involved but as more and more people slab coins the costs go up exponentially. Adding people to payroll to grade, costs of materials, liability insurance, general overhead, and on and on. I do not believe ICG is that expensive so that's where I have been going. The turn around time does not bother me but I'm a patient person. Postal rates keep creeping up also so that is a large part of it. If you think coins are expensive to have graded try comic books!

 

GDJMSP- Did'nt the mint slab the carson City GSA Dollars/ I think....maybe?

 

Just for my own knowledge, how much would PCGS have charged you for the same service?

 

Hi Marshall,
Beg to differ with you on current mint slabbed product. They are sooo easy to open with a jewlers screwdriver is is'nt funny. There is no guarantee with this product or peace of mind either. At least the TPG's put a tamper resistant seal so you can tell if they have been monkeyd with. JMO.

 

Nope, that was controlled by the General Services Administration (GSA).

 

Possible "monkey business" in the aftermarket. They are indeed easy to open. If you get 'em straight from the mint though, no sweat......

 

These two paragraphs are so true, I believe everyone should read them again.

 

If you have a GSA dollar you need to examine them very closely. When the CC Dollars were shipped to West Point from New Orleans they were briefly examined and then placed in GSA holders. The noticably oddball coins were set aside and eventually were photographed and had articles written about them. Then they were packaged up and sold like the others. In 1973 these coins sold for $30 and that was considered a very fair price.

 

I though the 2.9 million dollars were shipped from the Treasury building in Washington D.C to the West Point depository.

 

This is what the article in Error Trends Coin Magazine,
"When the New Oleans Mint was closed the stored coinage in the vaults was transported to the vaults of the Silver Bullion Depository at West Point. The bags were of silver dollars which had been made much earlier in Carson City". This was in the July, 2004 magazine. There is no mention of DC or any other coins other than the CC's...

 

Interesting, I've always read it was the 1964 audit of the Treasury building that discovered the 2.9 million CC's, and they were shipped from there to West Point.

Here's a preview to the GSA promotion movie for the sale, it puts the coins at the treasury building: YouTube - GSA Carson City Silver Dollar Movie Preview

Another coin mystery .

 

Actually those coins were kept in a shed in my backyard before they made the trip to West Point....

 

Mystery solved :goofer:. Btw you didn't happen to keep a bag or two of '89-CC's did ya Ken?