US silver coin rarity issues

Straight from pcgs
Things to draw from htis article.
75% of all US silver coins were melted in 1979-1980
75% of all circulated morgans and peace dollars were also melted.
Meaning morgans and peace dollars are very common in high grades.
Meaning most smaller coinage spare the kennedy half dollar are very rare in most years and dates.

Its very long but an interesting article. Shouldnt it chnage the way we treat silver coins? Is it fair to say that silver war nickels, silver dimes and silver quarters will acheiev unheard of numismatic value due to diminished numbers? Who knows if we can ever understand the actual outcome on rarity from the great silver meltdown of 1979-1980.


http://www.pcgs.com/articles/article496.chtml


AFTER THE MELTS: WHAT'S LEFT IN SILVER COINS?

Ed Reiter - January 19, 1999
[FONT=arial,helvetica]Normally, the value of a coin is based on how many were made. In years to come, however, the value of silver United States coins may hinge to a greater extent on how many were lost. Millions have been melted for the recapture of their metal, and the impact on coin collecting -- while still not fully gauged -- is likely to be great as time goes by. [/FONT]
edited - copyright rules - post a link to the article the next time

 

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I've often thought about this myself. Not only were a lot of small silver coins melted, but probably half the ones that weren't were lost over time, like change is lost today. Mintage figures truly mean nothing at all. But, because there's no real way of determining how many are out there, I doubt prices will rise unless demand outpaces supply.
Guy~

 

Add ones circulated so much they are no dates. There may have been rare ones in the melt just not recognized. Add ones purposely mangled. (I did this in my younger days putting them on railroad tracks.) Add ones made in to rings or other jewelry. Also when they say 75% I wonder what kind of percentages were dimes, quarters, halves, dollars. Also this is all estimates not hard numbers. So a grain of salt added.

 

I think a consensus would be needed to determine whats left roughly in circulation. or in collectors. I figure some of those 1960's dates will be ahrder than we expect. Also would be 1945 nickels, theyre quite sparse.

 

Melt

Any one guessing if we are melting silver today and what rate ??? 1% ?

Just looking for an opnion or better yet educated guess..

 

That is an interesting article. I have often wondered how many of these coins survived the great melt. For the commons, I like lower/middle grade BU examples (MS60-65) which can often be purchased for spot value. TC

 

I agree !!!!100% GDJMSD

About 6 days a week here in Huntsville silver & gold and jewelry come in to my buddy's shop as coin to sell at melt $$$$.as the price go up the faster the folks bring thing in.I go down to his shop 3 or 4 times a week to see what going to Silvertown but sometimes he will call if it a coin I have list on the HSVC,coin list you want or need.

 

this one that came in this week.I just wish I found before it went in to circulation

 

No, or,,,

No, or,,, If 75% of silver US coins were melted before 1980 there must have so much laying around that people were propping up doors and using it as boat anchors by the bag!
To believe that and all that has been since then (30 years) and is being melted right now, well golly jee folks there wouldn't a scap of silver left in the world.

The most common item in every, and I mean every coin shop, dealers table, old peoples dresser drawer and bank box is US coin silver. It has never been rare, is not now, and will not be for at least another 100 years.
Look folks I'm just a little old fellow from East Tenn. and may not know much but what I do know is what is what I see. I see silver everywhere, all the time, every one has it and nobody has to search to find it - those are facts, (at least down here).
The only aspect of any U.S. silver that may have suffered (and thus be less left in the market today) during meltdown was common date BU rolls of dimes, quarters and halves from 1950 forward. Yes, these were melted also as most were not (and still not) worth much over melt value. Truly original bank wrapped rolls of U.S BU coin silver may be a fraction of original mintages left. Even that does not or will not make it rare or very valuble in and of itself.

The 75% of all US coin silver was melted before 1980 figure only could be correct if at one time bags of silver were as common as dirt and worth little more!!! I would go with 45% to 60% but never 75% - not here anyway.

 

Jello,
Still a nice looking coin and a good save from the smelter.
Wish there was an accurate way to do a census of what
is remaining these days.
especially after the 79-80 melt. I remember seeing tons come through just one local dealer here in Michigan and I was in his shop on average of two days a week going through his cases to see what would fit in my collection.
One day that stands out in mind is when one guy brought in 10 boxes roughly
(regular size moving box's) 2 foot high 3 foot long and 1.5 foot wide full of Blue Pack and Brown Box Eisenhower Dollars. They all went to the melter.
Made me wonder how many times across the country that scene was being repeated when Silver was between $40.00 and $50.00 bucks an ounce
It almost seemed to be a frenzy of activity then.

Stewart

 

Actually a great point you brought up here. US silver coins are readily available and that brings up the point that I dont believe that all smelters had the capacity to smelt the coins and or will. And here is why.
About a couple blocks from my store is a coin shop, they pay for bulk 3% over spot. They also sell these investment bags nationwide. Now from my perspective and every other dealers, and salvage and smelters point of view. If I could get over spot, for the coins intact, why should I melt them?
All the local smelters send their coins to this shop, so many people send their coins to this shop that its ridicolous. I Have seen bags filled with hundreds of morgans whenever I go in to sell my weekly take. In addition I have seen representatives from a local smelter there before selling bags of US silver coins.
Now not saying that all people do this or that all smelters wont, but around here no one smelts their US coins. The only smelter who does actually melt the coins, only does pure bullion coins, and even then they prefer to smelt the pandas since ASE'S can be sold over spot.
Plus In regards to the article, they said they were trying to figure the know how on how to smelt these coins properly. By the time they do all that I am psoitive a majority of smelters, were unable to smelt the coins at peak prices, during 1979,1980. In addition my dad who was alive and young at the time claims that it was easiier to get bags of 90% silver coins back then today. he also believes only a small amount were smelted.
I wont say that 75% have been smelted, I do say though that certain Bu years were smelted in greater numbers. My whole point was to bring up that maybe we should relook into the population figures currently and try to see which years in high grades have significantly lower numbers so that we can adjust prices accordingly...

 

It depends on how fast you need to turn them to recover your money. Today the pace is much slower than it was back in late 79/early80. Today you can probably take a little time and sell them as investment bags IF you are known for doing that and have a steady clientele. During the big silver rush of 79/80 there were a LOT more sellers than buyers of "investment bags" and even a medium sized operation might be taking in 40 to 50 bags a day at 20 to 30 thousand dollars a bag. That is $800K a day just for the silver coin. That is $4.8 million a week. These guys didn't have that kind of money they could leave tied up while they wait for investment bag buyers to come in, they needed to turn that money NOW because they needed it to cover the checks they would write for more silver the next day. So every night they would ship what they bought that day off to the smelter who would wire the payment to their bank the next morning so they could do it again.

That is true they couldn't. And as the smelters got backlogged the discount they paid back of spot got larger and larger and the discount back of spot that dealers paid for the silver got larger as well.

Sure it was, becase any shop you went into before closing had bags of the stuff on hand that hadn't been shipped out yet. If you wanted one they just quoted you a price a little above what the smelter would pay them and you could walk out with your bag of 90%. Come in first thing in the morning they wouldn't have it. But they would less than an hour later. Silver coin isn't coming in anywhere near as fast today as it did back then, so it is harder to buy a bag of it from your local dealer.

 

25% of the silver coins produced is still a lot of coins. The long term survival rate (>100 years) for most coins is about 5%. Silver was hoarded in the sixties so their survival rate was much higher than most to begin with.

 

Dear little old fellow from East Tenn:

It sounds like East Tenn. would be a nice place to be.

There certainly is not silver everywhere I see, but I am not in Tenn. Additionally, the older I get, the fewer people I know who collect any kind of coin (the exception might be the newer state quarters).

It is not very often that I might wonder how nice it would be to live another 50 years. However, when I think about silver, I can't help wonder how nice it will be financially for families that have accummulated silver coinage.

Thanks for your East Tenn. perspective.

 

Personally, I think not.

This isn't news. The market is fully aware of the old time meltings, and has long since compensated i.e. is operating on the supply of how many survive, not how many were minted. That's happening right now, and has been for decades.

There's no reason to think there will be a giant surge in demand such that junk silver suddenly becomes collector-grade rarity. It's just bulk silver, except for those whose grade or rarity of survivors pushes the price up.

 

I laugh and laugh over and over about these "ooooooo how many 1964 roosies are sill out there".

1. MILLIONS and MILLIONS of silver coins were minted in the 1960's. Do you really know how MANY a MILLION is?

2. Oh. Melting will reduce the number of available coins. Once again - millions and millions. Yes, a lot of old guys saved tons and tons of rollls. They're just waiting for you to be interested. He's probably called "MY LOCAL COIN DEALER".

3. The number of coin collectors is unkonwn and is generally way, way, way over-estimated. With the state quarters, the US Mint has released figures like 150 MILLION people. Maybe - who knows. But that isn't 150 million people looking for your VF/XF bust dimes.

4. You are a FOOL if you are visiting this forum and thinking that somehow coins are a way to make money.

 

Great points
However I was just thinking thta silver war nickels should have more value since so many presumably have been melted.
I was also leaning towards that the three cent piece and half dimes may go up in price since it seems they were melted since they were discontinued. (You can disagree but there low mintage figures doesnt help much eitheir.)
And I was thinking proof Eisenhower dollar coins. They probably fell victim more frequently since during the 1979-1980 melt they were the newest released suilver coin. I am guessing there numbers tooka huge hit.
So my point with the silver war nickel and the Silver Eisenhower was that thye should have more collector value than spot.
The three cent and half dimes seem to represent greater the rarity issues they currently have.

And yes I know what a million is...
And I dont care for 1964 rosies that the most common silver idme out there. IMHO.

 

But if ***I know the grade is high and the coin is a rarely found coin by it self

And yes I know what a million is...
And I dont care for 1964 rosies that the most common silver idme out there. IMHO.[/QUOTE]
Back in 2005 or 2006 a well know collector passed add his family sold one of the higher or highest grade Roosevelt 1964-D DDR grade was MS-67ft* it sold for $45,000.00 would that perk your interest in to the silver Roosevelt Dime series?
I know that this is a rare error& I am not pointing this out to make you think I am trying embarrassing you in any way!!!

 

Thanks East Tenn. (except for the Republicans) is wonder

Thanks, East Tenn. edited is wonderfull area of the country, but this winter has been kind of cold I must admit.
There is silver everywhere - it walks into coin shops every day. It shows up at shows in every dealers case and with folks who walk in.
When I think about all that "we see" and then all that is in every older, (and younger) persons cabnet, drawer, lock box, I mean good golly it is so common that I can think of know other numismatic material except for maybe state quarters that could be more common.
This is not a really big town and only has 2 really well maintained coin shops. I can drive one mile east or 3 miles west and buy, trade for all the silver I want at any time they are open. I'm not even including dozens of pawn shops and gold and silver shops. All this in one little town in one little state. Just mulitply that by all the towns, all the states in this country, (even forget about the world for now) - can you even imagine the amount of silver??? It is unbelievible - the amount buggles the mind!!!