Roman Republic Silver

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Collecting Nut, Jan 2, 2022.

  1. Collecting Nut

    Collecting Nut Borderline Hoarder

    A Roman Republic Silver Denarius from L. Censorious around 82 BC. Apollo facing right or obverse. Satyr Marathas facing left on reverse. A higher condition for these coins, I’d place this in the AU area.
    5505B57D-47C7-4460-A6C7-061BC424D8D8.jpeg 8533DDC1-E39A-4A6C-B6AD-76A6A0143FE5.jpeg
     
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  3. GinoLR

    GinoLR Well-Known Member

    L. Marcius Censorinus, money triumvir in 82 BC. The reverse represents the satyr Marsyas raising right hand and holding wine-skin over his left shoulder; behind, column bearing statue on top. It was a famous statue that stood on the Roman Forum and was supposed to symbolize the Liberty of Rome.

    Censorinus.jpg
     
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  4. ambr0zie

    ambr0zie Dacian Taraboste

    My favorite RR coin, sharing this rating with the Papius Celsus in my avatar.
    upload_2022-1-2_22-50-43.png
     
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  5. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

    A very nice example! The photo's a bit blurry; I might actually be able to see it better if it were smaller. Here's my specimen.
    Censorinus (Apollo - Marsyas) jpg version Crawford 363-1a.jpg
    I've said many times that I think letter grades are pretty meaningless for ancient coins, and that I pay little or not attention to them. I have no recollection of what grade my seller gave to my coin. But if a dealer classified yours as AU, my reaction would probably be that (at least in that photo) you can't really see any of the details of Marsyas's face and beard, or the wineskin over his shoulder. Plus, if that kind of thing counts, his right arm and the statue on top of the column are largely cut off. AU or not, though, it's really nice!
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2022
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  6. Parthicus

    Parthicus Well-Known Member

    My budget example of the type ($22 from Harlan Berk's junk box):
    Roman Republic Marsyas.jpg
     
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  7. Collecting Nut

    Collecting Nut Borderline Hoarder

    I’m still on the shaky side. These photos were taken with my cell camera resting on something higher than the coin. Did the best I could. :)
     
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  8. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

  9. PMah

    PMah Member

    It's a type that is often off-center, unevenly worn, and frequently seen with al Marco adjustments. Artemide had a run of about 30 of these in a sale a few years ago, accompanied by a detailed article on the die marks. I think the article is still posted on their site.
    On the cell phone, a tip I recently learned and adopted: try resting the phone on a highball glass, and use the voice activated shutter, which really works well for casual pix.
     
  10. Sulla80

    Sulla80 Well-Known Member

    Four types exist (Crawford 363/1a to 1d )- however the most common type is "no control mark":
    upload_2022-1-2_16-49-55.png
    L. Censorinus, 82 BC, AR denarius, Rome mint
    Obv: Laureate head of Apollo right
    Rev: Marsyas standing left, raising hand and holding wine skin over shoulder; to right, column surmounted by statue of Victory standing right
    Ref: Crawford 363/1d (no control marks)
    Notes: Of Sulla & Apollo
     
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  11. Marsyas Mike

    Marsyas Mike Well-Known Member

    Pretty much my favorite. None of mine are in great shape; my avatar is the worst - when I joined CT, I think it was my only one:
    RR - Marcia Marsyas den. Dec 2016 (0).jpg

    This one has a die-clash and some banker's marks:
    RR - Censorinus - Marsyas Den. clashed die Nov. 2017 (1).JPG
    RR - Censorinus - Marsyas Den. clashed die Nov. 2017 (2).jpg

    This is probably my best:
    RR - Censorinus - 82 BC Marsayas June 2017  cointalk (1).jpg

    This one might be a fake, though I'm not sure. It weighs 2.95 grams which is too light for one of these. It doesn't look pressed, or cast or, for that matter, fourree.
    RR - Censorinus Marsyas Jun 2016 (0).jpg

    Here's a side few of the flan -
    Roman Rep - Censorinus Marsyas Jun 2016 (4).JPG
     
  12. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

    A beautiful example! If that's Victory on the column, do you see any sign of wings?
     
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  13. Aethelred

    Aethelred The Old Dead King

    I have yet to add this type to my collection, perhaps this thread will inspire me!
     
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  14. Collecting Nut

    Collecting Nut Borderline Hoarder

    I had it resting on something very similar
     
  15. Collecting Nut

    Collecting Nut Borderline Hoarder

    I certainly hope so. :)
     
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  16. Sulla80

    Sulla80 Well-Known Member

    No sign of wings, the description was following Crawford RRC. Minerva carrying victory a possibility too. Here's the detail from my coin.
    upload_2022-1-2_18-17-46.png
    and an interesting theory proposed by in this paper, "Certainly she is carrying something in her hand, and from the figure, in the front, something protrudes at a high angle. If so, it could be Venus, like the one portrayed on Buca's coins and therefore a second appropriation of divinity dear to Sulla" - The first appropriation being Apollo on the obverse, with Apollo and Venus both associated with Sulla. The reference to Buca is to Crawford 480 coins with Venus Victrix from 44 BC e.g. 480/7b, and 480/8.
     
  17. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

    I'm not so certain that she's carrying something, either on your specimen, on mine, or any of the others shown in this thread. Yes, she has one hand up near her mouth, but that could represent various things. There is sort of a shadow behind her, which I suppose could be wings if one exercises one's imagination sufficiently!
     
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  18. Collecting Nut

    Collecting Nut Borderline Hoarder

    We may never know the answer if there’s something there or not.
     
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  19. Sulla80

    Sulla80 Well-Known Member

    Crawford references the statue of victory found on 346 from another Marcian.
    upload_2022-1-2_19-46-22.png
    While I can see some logic to various theories and at this small scale any representation will be very crude (and a reasonable excuse for any mismatch) - nothing jumps out as "definitely the answer".
     
  20. octavius

    octavius Well-Known Member

    My L. Censorius RR denarius...

    875427.jpg
     
  21. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

    That might have the most detail on the reverse of any example I've seen. Including of the little figure on the column. She definitely is holding something, like a scepter. And is wearing a strange-looking conical hat!
     
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