Looking to better understand the terminology used for 1836 Gobrecht Dollars!

The constant I noticed is all true view images have ONE DOLLAR level at the bottom of the coin. I tend to do that myself when comparing the dies of each side. Rotation relative to a standard (medal or coin) is of secondary concern to me. It appears the True View image maker may be the same.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

There is only one Captain Henway.

 

Trueview images/cert pictures are not presented with the obverse image and the reverse image oriented in their natural alignment. Each image is manipulated to present in what the photographer believes to be the design's proper orientation.

 

I suppose the terminology should actually be different for my example, since it is actually a struck fake...

 

So the very first coin you posted, the ANACS one, is a slabbed fake, right? That wasn't clear to me in all of this, but I'm easily confused.

 

If it is counterfeit - it also wasn't clear to me. My understanding is J-60 was struck by the mint as a circulating dollar in 1837 using 1836 dies oriented in medal alignment - struck on 1837 planchets. Don't let the Trueview pictures confuse you. They never present the coin's obverse and reverse in its natural alignment/orientation. If they did all of them, well except for this case, would present an image of one side of the coin upside down.

 

The ANACS "coin" is mine and a struck counterfeit. The genuine source coin was holed and repaired and this one so well copied ANACS noted the result of the "repair" on the clone.

 

I don't know how many different die pairs were used in production of the 600 or so restrikes (probably only 1) but I would bet the rotation on the struck counterfeit doesn't match - being off by a few degrees.

 

I agree @justafarmer ; looks "flatter" in orientation by my eye than the other images of 2nd strikes...



I tried to orient the slab images the same.

 

Mr. Young, I have enjoyed this interesting thread. Thanks for that.

After some research, and your latest post ref. orientation, and the @justafarmer comment, The letter spacing does not appear the same, nor does the tail feather, beak and various star/letter alignments appear the same spacing. I assume it must be an optical allusion due to photo positions of the pieces.

Yes, it appears "flatter" to me, also.

 

O No...

 

@charley thanks for the note. My images of the source and mine:

 

Thank you. It must be me. I definitely detect an orientation spacing difference.

 

Being that the source coin for the counterfeit dies has a hole in it. The fixes made to the dies for the hole should align exactly opposite of each other (obverse to reverse) on struck counterfeits. If the counterfeit dies were set up to strike coinage in the proper alignment of a genuine coin. In other words, if you put a hole through the middle of the repair on the obverse of the counterfeit - it should pierce the middle of the repair showing on the reverse. If there is any deviation the counterfeit dies are not properly aligned in the orientation of a genuine coin.

 

Hard to tell from the available images!

 

I really can't comment due to the fact the orientation of the obverse remains unknown in your images. When the obverse and reverse dies are set and locked down in the coin press - these dies strike the planchet at the same orientation on every coin they strike. The location of the design elements of the obverse remains static relative to the design elements of the reverse on every coin a die pair strikes. Well at least until something physically causes this orientation to change. Such as one of the dies comes loose and rotates in the chamber or the alignment is purposefully adjusted.

The source coin image in this thread provided me with a seldom seen opportunity. Due to the fact the coin has a hole in it, a physical marker exists on both sides of the coin that allows me to determine with a high level of confidence this die pair's actual alignment for striking coinage. Then illustrate the differences if a counterfeiter was to align their dies @ 1/2 degree or 1 degree deviation from the alignment of a genuine coin.