A well made and old fake on auction

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by RichardT, Dec 26, 2021.

  1. RichardT

    RichardT Well-Known Member

    A very well known fake on auction at a very well known auction site, and at their premier auction no less. Buyer beware.

    https://www.numisbids.com/n.php?p=lot&sid=5292&lot=1009

    The auction description:

    Constantius II. AD 337-361. AV Solidus (22mm, 4.61 g, 1h). Antioch mint, 8th officina. Struck AD 347-355. FL IVL CONSTAN TIVS PER P AVG, rosette-diademed, draped, and cuirassed bust right / GLORIA REI PVBLICAE, Roma seated facing and Constantinopolis seated half-left with right foot on prow, each holding scepter in left hand, with their right hands supporting shield inscribed VOT/ XX/ MVLT/ XXX in four lines; SMANH. RIC VIII 84; Depeyrot 6/4; Biaggi –. Lustrous, hairlines. EF. Superb detail. Rare.

    From the Dr. John Whitehead Collection.

    The links on forgery network. There are more on Forvm Fake reports. This type was condemned in 1976. Easily identified by a die break on the reverse at about 5h.

    http://www.forgerynetwork.com/asset.aspx?id=Ez/ef4mRYog=
    http://www.forgerynetwork.com/asset.aspx?id=f21epMTo~x~3g=
     
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  3. panzerman

    panzerman Well-Known Member

    I am surprised that CNG would not have noticed it, if it turns out to be a fake.
     
  4. Hrefn

    Hrefn Well-Known Member

    With the slight doubling of the inscription in the exergue I would have thought this genuine. Assuming the original condemnation is correct, this is a hell of a fake.
     
    ominus1 and panzerman like this.
  5. RichardT

    RichardT Well-Known Member

    It is possible that this example on auction is the authentic mother I suppose, but I doubt it.

    There have been many, many twins of this type sold in auctions. But I didn't expect to see one offered by this particular auction house.
     
    IMP Shogun and ominus1 like this.
  6. Hrefn

    Hrefn Well-Known Member

    The other fakes show the doubling also. I was not trying to argue that the coin is genuine. Rather, little striking imperfections like that are one of the characteristics I have used as a rule of thumb when judging a coin’s authenticity. It is distressing to see it cannot be relied upon.
     
    ominus1 and panzerman like this.
  7. ominus1

    ominus1 Well-Known Member

    its always good to debate these issues..i study on them hard...fakes...o word of fear in the coin world...but i have come to admire those forgers who excel in their trade, altho they still be the enemy, they keep us on our toes..:) enemies.jpg IMG_0736.JPG Carl Becker Aemilian forgeries
     
  8. IMP Shogun

    IMP Shogun Well-Known Member

    I would absolutely buy this coin had you not pointed it out. My goodness.
     
    Restitutor likes this.
  9. Valentinian

    Valentinian Well-Known Member

    Wayne Sayles wrote a book, Classical Deception. The OP type of Constantius II
    https://www.numisbids.com/n.php?p=lot&sid=5292&lot=1009
    is pictured as a "Beirut School Forgery" on page 60. They are identical down to the diagnostic die break from the "E" to the border at 4:00 on the reverse.
     
  10. Tejas

    Tejas Well-Known Member

    That is a very worrying forgery. I wonder if this talented forger made other forgeries that have gone undetected.
     
    Alegandron likes this.
  11. Al Kowsky

    Al Kowsky Well-Known Member

    Richard, thanks for the alert :happy:! Did you inform CNG about your findings o_O? I spotted a well known fake in their Auction 506 about two weeks ago, then sent them an email, & they pulled the coin from their auction. I posted an article about the coin on CT 12 days ago that didn't generate a lot of interest, see the link below.

    https://www.cointalk.com/threads/fake-byzantine-solidus-spotted-from-cng-506.390513/
     
    Factor, Agricantus and Cicero12 like this.
  12. Hrefn

    Hrefn Well-Known Member

    @Al Kowsky , I saw that post and appreciated it.

    The false Constantius II and Romanus III solidi have been known and published for decades. That they entered a major auction regardless means the auction house is not doing a simple check for authenticity, which is very troubling. I have known enough to carefully check any Romanus III solidus against know counterfeits for 30 years, and I am not a professional numismatist.

    @Tejas we discussed a Theodosius II barbarous solidus some months ago. Do you have any more information about its authenticity?
     
  13. John Anthony

    John Anthony Ultracrepidarian

    Email CNG - they are prompt about removing forgeries. Even the most reputable houses make mistakes. In the meantime, paging @Ardatirion to view this thread.
     
    ominus1 likes this.
  14. ancient coin hunter

    ancient coin hunter 3rd Century Usurper

    Hmmm, too bad it's fake.
     
  15. Al Kowsky

    Al Kowsky Well-Known Member

    Hrefn, I did search through Guy Lacam's books for anything similar to Dirk's coin without success :(. Unfortunately his books were composed 40 years ago, so any important discoveries or developments on barbarous gold coins since 1982 would be missing from his books.
     
    Hrefn likes this.
  16. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    Errors are not a problem. We all make errors. The problem comes when those errors are not handled properly. If someone of my level reports a fake, I do not expect the big guys to believe me without checking but the deal breaker is when a house does not take down the fake after proper investigation. It would be interesting to know how many 'its fake' notes a big house gets on the average sale and the number of those that are incorrect. I don't read many auction catalogs (most dropped me for good reason when I retired to fixed income in 2003). I don't 'report' a coin unless I am 110% certain I am right. So far, I have had a good percentage of reports taken seriously. It has been a couple years since I reported this one. I do wonder what the consignor did with the coin. Was it sent to another house that didn't see its obvious problem either?
    4370457.jpg

    What is the 'proper' thing for an auction to do with such coins? They can't very well confiscate the property but returning it will often result in it being sent to another dealer. It would be good if there were a secret dealer network on which they could post fakes they rejected and names of the consigners. Maybe there is. I would not know.
     
  17. Ricardo123

    Ricardo123 Well-Known Member

    Factor and DonnaML like this.
  18. PeteB

    PeteB Well-Known Member

    CNG will withdraw the OP coin….if they haven’t already done so.
     
  19. romismatist

    romismatist Well-Known Member

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