Looking to better understand the terminology used for 1836 Gobrecht Dollars!

I understand there were two "original" strikings of 1836 circulation Gobrecht dollars dated 1836; the 1st group of 1000 weighed the previous standard of 416 grains. They were die alignment I with the eagle flying upward.

the 2nd group of 600 were struck at the new weight standard of 412.5 grains, die alignment IV (medal turn) with the eagle flying level.

And in the late 1850's "restrikes" were coined for collectors including pieces dated 1836.

My example is labeled a "Proof J-60 Restrike", from the 2nd group struck due to its die alignment and weight.



I was directed to a lot description from Heritage as follows:





Here they refer to one like mine as "technically a restrike" (agreed) or a "second original".

And then there is this interesting one...





Eagle appears level in the slab, upward in the cert image and is labeled "Original- Medal Alignment".

So which terminology is "correct"?

And then the actual 1850's "restrikes", how are they designated/ labeled?

 

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Beats my five aces. I think the "experts" post on another forum. I believe there was an article in the Numismatist about these coins this year or last.

 

I will have to do more research as to what the latest thinking is on these coins. When I was actively looking for one, the pieces that had the eagle flying level were all called "restrikes." The pieces that had the eagle flying "onward and upward," both metal turn and coin turn, were called "original.'

The only one that I have nailed down is if the rotation is a coin turn, with the eagle flying "onward and upward," it is an 1836 original, die rotation #1. This piece, PCGS graded PR-62, CAC, is in my collection.



Before I owned the above piece, I owned this one, which was NGC graded PR-60.



It was my understanding that this piece is a restrike from the 1850s.

Concern about how the eagle is flying has caused concern with these pieces. "Onward and upward" was good; flying level was bad. It didn't help that the "Red Book" gave the level flyers second class status with words like, "Not official coins." That led dealers and auctioneers to downplay the die rotation of the coins they were offering.

 

@johnmilton I noticed in your NGC posted example and the images in the Red Book for the 1850's "restrikes" the eagle is tilted slightly downward versus the "flying level" orientation of the "original" strikes.

 

Oh great. I was always vaguely aware of this type, now it's been added to the list of coins I simply must have or I'll go crazy. Mesmerizing!

 

Thank you for that response @GDJMSP ;helps fill in the rest of the story!

No way to know but I wonder what the TPG was trying to accomplish with the "tilted" image...

 

Since the TrueView is taken outside the slab, perhaps the photographer saw it graded "original" and oriented the reverse to be "how it's supposed to look"? If I'm understanding this correctly... The nomenclature sure is confusing to someone like me who is new to these - there's either a "first' original, "second" original (1837), and restrike (1850's), OR there's "original", first restrike (1837), and second restrike (1850's)?

 

I'm with you!

Just saw this 1839 listed for sale, and again the PCGS True View image shows a reoriented reverse...

 

And then there's this one. I'm confused, they're confused, we're all confused.

 

Made me chuckle @KBBPLL ! Merry Christmas to you and yours.

 

Made me Chuckle!

 

OK, I wrote a little humorous summary of what I learned...

 

There have been many articles written about these in the Numismatist. Some of them may be right. Good luck figuring out which ones.

 

I will keep my opinion to myself and standby for the results of the more experienced ones. Good luck.

 

Are you the same Capt. from another forum? If so, this is one of the "experts" on Internet forums I referred to and I'd wish he would post here on CT more often!!!

 

I looked up the 1836 on PCGS. I thought it was funny that in previous auction sales the first one I clicked on looked like that. Did it rotate in the rattler or was the photographer also slabbing coins?

There's a spinner thing you click on to see the other side. https://www.pcgs.com/holdermuseum/Gen1.2