I'm hoping that this is not a repeat post, but I found this article very disappointing: http://coins.about.com/b/ Very sad, indeed. guy
Yep that is sad and that happens in every industry out there. Always a bad that makes the others look bad.
I have been buying coins for nearly 40 years and I have found that 80% of coin dealers are actually quite honest. They realize a fair profit when buying coins and sleep well at night. The other 20% are either addicted to drugs, gambling or god knows what else and will take advantage of people, especially older women. Very sad. Perhaps they have mommy issues... All we can do is support the honest dealers and boycott the crooks.
While I agree to a point with you, Duke, I'd think it happens way more than we'd like to think....I have to imagine that anyone selling coins that has no knowledge of them, is going to get taken (ripped off, fleeced...whatever word you wish to use) when selling their coins. These dealers antics aren't reserved for just women, or the elderly. These dealers have no ethics, honor, or decency, and will try to make ANYONE feel they were doing them 'a favor' to give/offer them as much as they did/do. With that said, I believe the author did the right thing, even though she must have known she was putting her future presence at that show at risk. I can see that dealers point, however, where she had no business interfering in his business dealings (though, I think EVERYONE involved went overboard in evicting her). Don't get me wrong...I would have done the same thing, I could never sit by silently while watching an obviously heartless, consciousless snake take advantage of someone like that. I would have told that little old lady to meet me in the parking lot to talk about it, and if not making an outright offer, at least tell her what to ask for when asked 'how much'. It's simply awful that there has to be dealers like this, but there are way more of them than we'd care to believe, unfortunately. Thanks for sharing that link...it's stories like that that make me glad I have an idea of my coins' worth, and if I want to sell, I know I can give an educated answer when asked 'how much'. It's simply too bad that there are people without any knowledge that have these kinds of coins.
Happens all the time. First time I sold my coins to dealer I got the following $.10 for a silver nickel Actual value: $1 $1.90 for a silver quarter. Actual value $3 $1 for a 1958 dime Actual value $1.25 $1 for a 1847 dime (F) Actual value $8 Hmmhh consider that for a second I have gotten into toned coin collection recently though, I was offered $3 for a monster toned bufallo, turned it down and instead sold it privately for $28. Not bad on my part Its all about education, if your educated you wont get burned.
With the exception of some very respected, fair, honest dealers.....'Dealer's ethics' is an oxymoron for the most part.
In all the posts I've seen about dealers, starting a business and stories such as what the OP posted, I really have come to the conclusion that this is the only way that Brick & Mortar dealers can survive. You have to get your "stuff" from somewhere and while apparently "dealer to dealer" transactions happen frequently, you're not getting exceptional deals. I know the "80-year old lady" pulls at everyone's heart strings, but it's the same for everyone - if you show up at a coin dealer wanting to sell some coins, you most likely have a sad story to tell. I'm sure after years of dealing with clueless old ladies, starving college students and despearate middle-aged men, coin dealers are pretty calloused by now. When someone on this forum rips off an ebay seller because they put the item in the wrong category or are selling coins and obviously don't know what they're worth, I don't see the COIN POLICE get in line to beat that person up.
A few things here. The coin dealer here, and anyone that can defend his actions, (like the individuals within the comments section of the attached link) is an underhanded piece of crap. Plain and simple. I don't care if he did this to an 80 year old senior citizen or a 30 year old obnoxious customer, same labelling applies The old lady should have picked up her pieces and walked away after the dealer refused to provide her any appraisal amount. Her intent was to get an appraisal, and (hopefully) take it to another dealer for another appraisal as a saftey check. I've got my fingers crossed that the old lady saw the light and walked away. You can be sure of one thing, the news of this episode must have spread like wildfire within the facility so its my hope that this dealers reputation probably has been tarnished in the eyes of his collegues, and/or other consumers at the show. Its episodes like that is why I am always sceptical about dealers I do not know. Its a shame, because its an area that could use a whole new publicity makeover. With new dealers I want to test at shows (or stores), I usually bring a better coin I have, and ask them if they would be interesting in purchasing it. If they low ball me to a large extent, I move on and act stupid to the next guy until I find someone on the level, and then I'll buy from them. I dont care if his prices may be a little more than the crook dealer's. He earned my respect. Sorry if I waisted the other dealers time, but thats the price to pay, for being an idiot in my eyes.
All I get from this article is that there is one bad dealer out there. We all know that - no reason to trash dealers as a whole because of this article. And why didn't Roy Comnick speak up also? If nothing else at least in defense of his customer. I am not going to condemn all dealers out there because of one bad dealer. It seems like a lot of people seem to think if they have a $10 coin they should get $10 from the dealer. This will not happen for a variety of reasons - I recommend this thread on coinzip - I like following the adventures of clembo.
IMO, every profession has its unethical people. The key is to find those you can trust and reward them for their honesty and integrity. TC
I am not the most successful dealer in the world, but I can sleep at night. My faith and my reputation come first. If someone who does not know coins comes up and asks for an offer, I make the exact same offer as I would for the average coin collector. Now if a collector comes up and hasn't done his homework and offers me a rare variety (the kind of thing you usually don't notice until later anyway), I will cherrypick while making a fair offer. But that is a far cry from taking advantage of a non-numismatist. That is sheer thievery to me, and it tarnishes the reputable dealers ... who are out there. The good news is, my reputation precedes me, and at the few shows I do, people offer me coins before some other dealers, esp. if they ask around first.
I personally would have reacted in a very similar manor. A slimeball like that needs to be torpedoed from time to time. The funny thing is that I had a table at that very same show but missed it because of a family wedding. People like this give coin dealers really bad wraps. You always read stories about the bad coin dealers and the nasty things they do. Much less often do you read about the good ones and how fair they are. I'm not sure if it just gets discussed less or there are less good people in this buisness. It's a hard call.
Its always interesting how different people can read the same article and get different impressions. It all depends on their life experience and environment. I get from the article that this woman is a brave hero who saw a wrong being committed and tried to make it right. Once she spoke up she became a "whistle blower" and unfotunately she will be demonized by other coin dealers. She pulled back the curtain to reveal a real problem with the hobby/industry that happens all of the time all over the country. Making a reasonable profit is one thing but this example was not out of the ordinary. Why didn't any of the other dealers object or come to her aid ?...real simple ... there is a thin blue line equivilent within the dealer community. Once she questioned the other dealer, she became poison and once she was toxic, she was all on her one and alone. Dealers don't speak ill of their bretheren. That's the code of ethics that I've heard discussed in the backrooms of the dealers that I patronize. I commend the author for her bravery and hope others take her words to heart.
I don't consider this ordinary. Does it happen - yes. Is it ordinary - I don't think so. You never read about the stories of people selling to dealers and being happy. If someone did post something like that everybody would be telling them how the dealer ripped them off. You can't apply this story to all dealers, which is what most people will do when they read it. And we won't go into what is a reasonable profit - that is a whole discussion all on its own. When I walk into a shop I don't expect one dealer to speak ill of another. In this case it would have been easy to say something to the guards. I have no problems with her speaking up and I probably would have done the same thing. The whole point is - don't apply this story to all dealers, which is what the title of the story does.
i guess i was just wondering if a dealer yells WOLF at a coin show theyll have you thrown out that easily? i dunno if id yell at the guy but id sure say something to the lady like you sure you wanna sell to this INSERT WORD HERE. that being said this whole story just sounds lame... i mean a woman looking at some coins at what must of been a fair distance and im sure theres only been 1000 stories here about this came from my grandfather -------------- and its worth 5 bucks. we dont know what the old lady had.
