Merovingian coinage....

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by panzerman, Dec 9, 2021.

  1. Tejas

    Tejas Well-Known Member

    Your "Victobi-" Solidus is fantastic. I don't think that these coins were minted at Reims, though. Instead, I think they were produced by a southern mint, somewhere towards the border to Spain.

    I have the coin below, which shares similarities with your coin.

    1. Note the bust with the the barbed lance. Both coins were copied from Ostrogothic examples (some Merovingian solidi from Reims were copied from Byzantine examples).
    2. Note the rim of the helmet, which looks like spiky hair on both coins.
    3. The legends have the same un-barred As

    My coin was reportedly found in southern France. It shows a letter A in the reverse field and at the end of the reverse legend. This may be a mint mark, perhaps for Avignon.

    Obv.: CNANASTA SIVS PCAC
    Rec.: VICTORIA AAVCCCA
    Exergue: BONC (reversed)

    Weigth: 4.37g (22X21mm)

    I think the coin was minted during the reign of Cholodowech (Clovis)


    Screenshot 2021-12-14 at 20.19.37.png
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2021
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  3. Hrefn

    Hrefn Well-Known Member

    @Tejas, always a pleasure to have the benefit of your thoughts. Your Merovingian solidus does share many features with my “VICTOBI” solidus. The unbarred “A” in the reverse field first made me think of Arles, but that city was under Visigothic control early in the reign of Anastasius.
    The spiky hair brings to mind the epithet “the long-haired kings” which was applied to the Merovingian monarchs, as recorded by Gregory of Tours, I believe. The Reges criniti.
    Instances of the unbarred “A” can be seen on Visigothic solidi of Valentinian III, the VICTOBI coin, and this bizarre coin of Focas (which the ANA said is from Constantinople, but I am very skeptical of this.) Also the imitative solidus, possibly Burgundian, below which you have seen previously. It seems to be an error which many illiterate celators have fallen into independently. upload_2021-12-14_21-24-18.jpeg upload_2021-12-14_21-26-32.jpeg upload_2021-12-14_21-43-9.jpeg
     
  4. AussieCollector

    AussieCollector Moderator Moderator

    Maybe a "post your Picasso?"
     
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  5. Tejas

    Tejas Well-Known Member

    I meant Arles when I wrote Avignon. Arles is much more likely between the two. The Provence had passed to Frankish/Merovingian control in the first phase of the Gothic war under King Witigis (536-540).

    I think an important observation is that both yours and my Merovingian solidi (and your Burgundian solidus) are all copied from Ostrogothic models.

    Metlich (The coinage of Ostrogothic Italy, p. 18) writes "For the next decades (after AD 497) ..., the solidus type was fixed, using the 'pseudo'-officina A, the PF title, a barbed spear top, an eight rayed star ..."

    Given that southern Gaul was under Ostrogothic control (after 507) it is likely that Ostrogothic solidi were known in the region and later used as models for our solidi.

    Clearly, if the pseudo-officina letter A was copied from the Ostrogothic models it had no meaning on the imitations. However, the additional A in the reverse field of my solidus could point to Arles.

    So we have a hypothesis for a place (Arles) and a date (after 536).

    Here is another solidus from my collection, which belongs to the group that we are discussing (barbed spear, pseudo-officina A, but note the PP instead of PF, which suggests that the model was a coin from Milan)

    Obv.: DNANASTA SIV SPPAVC
    Rev.: VICTORI AAVCCCA
    Exergue: COMOD
    Mint: Southern Gaul?
    Weight: 4.43g
    Diameter: 20mm

    The style is much finer than my other solidus of this type. The legends are basically correct.


    Screenshot 2021-12-15 at 08.24.44.png
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2021
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  6. Tejas

    Tejas Well-Known Member

    Below is another solidus from my collection. This coin belongs to a different group of Merovingian solidi. Lets call it the northern group in contrast to the solidi that we discussed before and which probably originate from the Provence.

    Note the leaf-shaped spear and the frontal angel, which was never used on Ostrogothic coins. The model for this coin was not an Ostrogothic coin from Italy, but a Byzantine coin.

    With these characteristics and the overall style of the bust and face of the Emperor it relates directly to the solidi, which King Theodebert minted in his own name, probably at Metz, Reims or Bonn. I think this coin just predates the named series, which started around AD 533 after Theodebert claimed imperial status after hat defeated the Thuringian Kingdom and killed King Hermenefrid.

    King Theodebert of Metz
    Obv.: DAA IVSTI - NVS P P AVI
    Rev.: VICTOAI - V V ACCC B / CONOB
    Mint: Metz?
    Date: 527 - 533
    Weight: 4.46g
    Diameter: 21mm

    I bought the coin some 20 years ago for a price that seemed high at the time (some 2000 eur). However, I think the coin would fetch two or three times that amount in an auction today.

    Screenshot 2021-12-15 at 08.39.30.png



    For comparison, here is a soldius in the name of Theodebert (Not my coin - unfortunately)

    https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=567094
    For those who have not subscribed to acsearch, the coin sold for USD 50'000 in 2009.

    The monogram on the reverse suggest that the coin was made in Reims

    Screenshot 2021-12-15 at 09.37.45.png


    These coins were minted at different mints and I have seen suggestions for Reims, Metz and Bonn. More examples:

    The BO on the reverse could point to Bonn in Germany as the location of the mint
    Screenshot 2021-12-15 at 09.52.36.png

    Perhaps an example from Metz

    Screenshot 2021-12-15 at 09.53.03.png


    These coins were made over a longer period with varying legends and the bust was later adjusted to later coins of Justinian.

    Two coins from the Berlin Münzkabinett:

    Screenshot 2021-12-15 at 10.06.37.png

    This one was minted at Cologne:


    Screenshot 2021-12-15 at 10.51.54.png
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2021
  7. panzerman

    panzerman Well-Known Member

    Anyone know if this one in Merovingian?
    I got it as "unpublished" AV Tremissis ND
    in name of Marcian/ unknown mint. e9259c69c9c1b350f445a5c4fb1b8ad6.jpg
     
  8. Tejas

    Tejas Well-Known Member

    The first historically attested Merovingian king was Childerich I, who ruled in north eastern Gaul in the 460s and 470s (+481). Coins of Marcianus probably pre-date Childerich's rule and are hence better described as Gallic imitation, if indeed it is clear that they are from Gaul.
     
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  9. Hrefn

    Hrefn Well-Known Member

    A scholarly paper on the coins found in the grave of King Childerich which amounted to 100 solidi.

    https://www.academia.edu/1171510/The_Coins_in_the_Grave_of_King_Childeric

    I believe only one solidus is thought to have been barbarous, and that was Visigothic. The author notes the coins were probably carefully selected, rather than representative of whatever gold was available at the time. Nevertheless there are no Merovingian coins at all, and it seems unlikely they were striking coins yet (481 AD.)

    OTOH, there exist numerous unusual tremisses of Marcian’s immediate successor Leo, which were discussed recently in a previous thread. There is no firm consensus as to their origin. https://www.cointalk.com/threads/unknown-barbarian-tremissis-of-leo.384301/
     
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  10. Tejas

    Tejas Well-Known Member

    I think it is important to realize that imitations were made when official coins were not available in sufficient numbers. A notable exception are the Burgundian coins which were based on the official coinage of Ostrogothic Italy. Gallic imitations of the 5th century (which included Visigothic and Frankish jurisdictions, but also various provincial Roman centeres) were purely imitative coins, often made to lower standards of purity and weight. To the people of that time, most of these coins were second choice. Indeed, the Burgundian law code explicitly prohibitit the circulation of Visigothic coins struck under King Euric.

    Childeric's grave goods are an interesting point in case. Chlodevig (Clovis as he is called in French and English) was careful to select grave goods for his father's burial that demonstrated his status as a very successful and powerful Germanic war lord. Childeric's wife had been a Thuringian princess. Parts of the burial custom, like the horse burials have parallels in Thuringian traditions.

    However, the grave goods were also meant to represent Childeric's status as a Roman official. Childeric had died a pagan, but Gallic bishops and Romano-Gallic nobles will likely have attended his burial. The large set of carefully selected Roman coins belonged to this part of the burial. Gallic-Visigothic Imitations would have been out of place in this context. And of course, the Franks only controlled the north-eastern parts of Gaul at the time and almost certainly did not yet produce coins.
     
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  11. ChasPay

    ChasPay Active Member

    Lots of good vids on YouTube about Sutton Hoo. Curiously I had never heard of it until the other day when I watched one by Geographics. Lead me to watch a few others by the British Museum and a few others. Interestingly they are still finding things including lots of coins of course.
     
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  12. Archeocultura

    Archeocultura Well-Known Member

    Panzerman, I like your "croix ancre" coin! I have the temporary custody of a detectorfind from the Netherlands which we have not yet been able to identify. I will post it here as it fits the thread and possibly leads to an identification. A nice gold tremisses from the former island of Wieringen: tremissis2.jpg
     
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  13. panzerman

    panzerman Well-Known Member

    Here is one I bought from Roma Auctions as an "unsold lot"

    AV Triens ND (610-15AD) Quentovic Mint
    Neustria
    obv: Diademed Head right
    rev: Cross
    Moneyer Ancco b51ea0ee79b1a7356776ab78a4803b68.jpg
     
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  14. Tejas

    Tejas Well-Known Member

    Great coin from a very important location.

    The oberse legend is misspelled for VVICCO FIT = (Quentia) Vicus fitur = produced in the Vicus (=settlement) (at the Quentia river.)

    The reverse legend is ANCCO MONET meaning Ancco monetarius.

    This period, i.e. the early 7th century is the depth of the dark ages. Despite the brave attempts by Cassiodorus, who died sometime in the 580s, the light of learning and preservation of knowledge was almost extinguished by the time your coin was made.

    This is probably an exaggeration, but I picture this period a bit like a post-apocalyptic world, where the Latin on coins like yours was the only exposure that people had to writing and for the vast majority of them these letters were just mysterious unintelligible symbols of a distant past.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2021
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  15. Tejas

    Tejas Well-Known Member

    With these clear legends, the coin is probably identifiable:
    I read:
    Obv: HARSIS CIVIS (or NARS_S CIVIS) for the minting place
    Rev.: BA___CIV M for the monneyer name
     
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  16. Nap

    Nap Well-Known Member

    The loss of Childeric’s treasure is a sad story, though it was well cataloged for the time, and several cast imitations of items were made, so we have an idea what it looked like.
     
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  17. Al Kowsky

    Al Kowsky Well-Known Member

    Dirk, thanks for posting the link to Merovingian Gold Coinage from Sutton Hoo, it was an excellent article. Very little attention has been given to the coinage of that burial since the other treasures were so impressive. I'm awed to see so many rare Merovingian coins in this thread :jawdrop:! CT members are always pulling rabbits out of their hats to delight us :happy:.
     
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  18. Clonecommanderavgvsvs

    Clonecommanderavgvsvs Well-Known Member

    Very nice coins everyone! Franks are one of the Germanic peoples I need a coin of. I have a vandalic nummus of gelimer in the mail right now!:smuggrin:
     
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